Help To ID Please... 120-Pn?

Have had this a long, long time... I don't collect
dies or plate proofs... I helped someone out that
needed cash for a bunch of material, which included
this piece. The vignette and frame appear to be one
piece under high magnification, so I'm pretty sure
it's not 120-E3a...



Stamp appears to be white wove paper...

Card measures 7" across by 7½" high...

Click the image, and then click both magnifiers
for clear enlarged image...

Hi Randall,

I got your link and took care of it, with great thanks.

This item is a hybrid large die proof. Normally a large die proof is printed directly from the inked die onto a small sheet of dampened India paper which has been lain over it and covered over (backed) with a card blotter. The pressure of the press on this stack forces the edges of the die into the India and sinks it into the card a bit. The contours and dimensions of the die are visible in this area of "sinkage" and at the center is the printed proof image. That is the process for a "die sunk" large die proof.

However, because of the necessity for bicolor printing of the upper denominations of the Pictorials of 1869, the die proofs were prepared from finished plate proof impressions on India. Typically, but not always, a plate proof single of the denomination, here 24c, was trimmed close to the design, positioned on another piece of India paper, then block sunk onto a card backing sheet and sent for binding into a book with similar proofs for the rest of the series, per the government request. That is what makes it a "hybrid" and that explains the note in Scott that all the die proofs for these upper denominations exist only this way.

In this case, I cannot tell if the card page is complete or has been reduced. Nor can I tell whether or not there is a piece of India paper in the sinkage area into which the cut India proof was sunk. The even tone of the card inside as well as outside the sinkage area makes me think there is no such India sheet in this case. In either case, one should not confuse the dimensions of the sinkage area here with the dimensions of either of the dies for the design. It is not formed by either die.

So in a word, this is a hybrid 120P1 (for the 24 cent)

Correction - This is a #120P1. High value 1869s only exist as hybrid large die proofs, so the Scott listing is for hybrids.

Hi, essay... thank you kindly for 'coming to the rescue' with your terrific and detailed explanation... I was never sure about all of the different terminology in Scott, relative to this type of material... most especially with the references to 'hybrid'... I'll print a copy of the info you have provided and keep it with the stamp for future reference... thanks again...

Randall