Fun With Mythbusting

I made my guess based on the last two being cheaper items, but looking back at your lisy of auction houses, Kellerher certainly sells lower priced items too and I think Aldrich may also.

No Bill, guessing about some "good deal" I got wasn't my point. This is about comparisons. During an online auction not long ago, I heard some snide comments about the ebay market environment and how chaotic it is, so like the wild west, and how the poor fools trying to buy there are getting ripped and don't know it, yadda, yadda, yadda. I chalked it up to bashing the competition, but I am aware that there are collectors who look down on building a collection off of ebay. Seems kind of snooty to me.

Meanwhile I have read comments here that betray an apprehensiveness about participating in sales held by the major houses, with Siegel at the top of the untouchable list. Now it is true that some of these houses lot the material they sell with a goal of $1K or better, with occasional dips to the $500 range. But no one should stay away out of fear that their pockets aren't deep enough, since there are a great many highly desirable lots that fetch well below estimate. My basic premise is pretty much what you said in your post here, Bill, namely that the astute buyer who knows the material can make out in any of these venues. But it also needs to be said that a very nice classics collection can be built entirely from purchases on ebay. Mostly below investment grade, that's true, but great to study and to show. By the same token, it should not be assumed, as some here seem to think, that it can be done more cheaply than in the larger auction market. Buyers on ebay too often pay more for less. And if that is considered proper, then that IS chaotic and stupid.

In terms of overall grade I consider the 5 items I illustrate here to be roughly equivalent to one another. If so, it should not be easy to tell what came from ebay and what came from "knowledgeable" sellers. And from the guessing about source I have seen here (all over the map) it is not easy to tell. I think that is as it should be. But just as important, it is not easy to tell what sources are the most economical. So let's take this little demonstration to the next level.

Here are the sources for the five items.
Top row: Aldrich - Siegel - Kelleher
Bottom: ebay - ebay

And in case you're wondering, the item on piece I show in another thread was from Kelleher.

Using your own prejudices or experiences as a guide can you rank the items in terms of price as a percentage of catalog value? I ask for it that way in order to get around the basic value differences. Measured in this way, how will the purchases from ebay stack up as value items against the others? How far apart will they be?


Oh, two other things: try searching for this kind of material on ebay and see what kind of price averages you get. BTW there is a Harmer sale coming up at the end of the month with some interesting lots in it - get a load of lot 1003 and see what is presently starting at $1500
http://stampauctionnetwork.com/ha/ha30061.cfm#3

Secondly, none of the items I am showing you in this thread has a certificate. I had to keep things on an even keel. You might want to keep that in mind as you do your comparisons.

I will say that I 'bash' on the dodgy listings on ebay not due to experienced collectors like you but because of inexperienced and new hobbyists. Of course a person who has spent a few years in the hobby can learn what to watch out for and how to make better buying decisions.

But how many newer hobbyists are getting burned and then not continuing in hobby due to the bad experience? And like is commonly said, every bad story gets repeated many times.

What seems a bit snooty to me are those experienced hobbyists who believe that 'buyer beware' and getting burned a few times is part of the entry cost of the hobby. After all, they paid the price and are now smarter having learned the lesson. I think this kind of thinking is hurting philately and we need to capture every new hobbyist we can. We don't often hear from the new hobbyists, they are not likely to quickly join a stamp club, APS, or even a forum like this. They find grandfathers old collection, may make a few purchases on ebay and get burned, and then say 'the heck with it'.

So while I concur that an experienced hobbyist can make good purchases on ebay, many others cannot. I just finished compiling data for one larger vender who has sold a bit over $11k worth of fake/forgery stamps since June (mostly fake coils). What happens to these stamps? My guess is that the majority of the buyers just take the word of the vender, place them into their albums, and will be surprised one day in the future. Others may find out they got ripped off but won't admit it publicly since it makes them look foolish. In my opinion these kinds of dodgy listings is a very real and significant problem.
Don

Regardless of where you got them - congrats on the nice pickups :)

I recognize what you are saying, Don, and that has been my experience and concern too. Hence all the more reason to alert folks to the benefits of buying from the major houses who have the staff to do a better, not perfect, job. Nothing protects a collector better than knowledge and direct experience. But failing that, a trustworthy supplier has to be the next best thing. There are reasons the well known houses are well known, and its not all about infamy.

Thanks Mike. Your report on your new avatar got the ball rolling on this. So thanks to you for that too!

Okay, so much for the lighthearted approach. Maybe now's the time to lay this dead horse to rest.

Here again are the sources for the five items.
Top row: Aldrich - Siegel - Kelleher
Bottom: ebay - ebay

Here are the prices for the pieces. Numbers in green are the hammer prices each lot closed at, and the numbers in blue are the prices with house surcharge (where that was applied). Barring mistakes in listing, I doubt that you could get the items in the top row on ebay for these numbers, but I do think that sometimes you can come close.




What this little experience bears out for me is something I have observed generally when purchasing collector grade classics online: i.e. in my experience, when quality classics are available on ebay, you will pay a larger percentage of catalog to get one than for the same thing at an auction house. Beyond this, ebay is not the place to go for investment grade stamps.

I was looking to fill my early spaces with nice looking examples that would not cost an arm and a leg, and I'm pleased with what I got. But now I have a choice to make. One of the ten cent Washington (#2) stamps is not needed.

Which one would you keep (or get rid of)?

I would get rid of the far right example. The remains of the erased pen cancel, and the clip at upper right, to me are less attractive than the red cancel through George's face in the other one. And I feel that color in the far right example is a it less fresh.

A third purchase route, in my view under used, is to establish a personal relationship with a reputable dealer to whom you give repeat business. I do this with GB issues to good effect.

I also agree that auctions actually can be a source of good value. I just attended one in London and was delighted to come home with items below ebay pricing, of good quality and with little buyer competition. Many auctions naturally have tons of material that the auction house views as filler between the high dollar items, but for the average collector represent good value.

I am grateful for the thoughtfulness of this thread.

Auctions can be a wonderful source of stamps especially if you know what you are looking for. The "Caveat Emptor" rule applies at ebay more than just about anywhere. I too have seen quite a few things that was really nice and and if the was a super nice piece then they was either reaching for the moon in price or so low that it makes "the alarm" go off that something is wrong and a closer examination.. I would give my left arm for any of of those pictured in the first page but I'll never get that fortunate I suppose? Who knows though maybe I just got to look harder? Great post! and GORGEOUS stamps nomatter what anyone says about them!

And to quote


Nonsense! I would cherish each and every one of them. I was really ill from Chemo when this thread originally popped up but I did see it. essayk you have a beautiful collection to be envied as do a few others on here so take it with a grain of salt. Chide me if you will but is my stance on the matter! -Jeff

What beautiful stamps these are... One of personal favorites to just stare at! I'll probably never own one of these beauties but I can sure look!