Identification Of 2 Cent And 4 Cent Washinton Coils?

Hello everyone. I am hopelessly confused on identifying stamps from the 1908 to 1922 Washington-Franklin issues. Here is a photo of a cover with some coil stamps from this series: a line pair of the 4 cent Washingtons and a single 2 cent Washington. Can anyone offer their thoughts on exactly which ones these are? Thank you for whatever thoughts you have.

Is the 4¢ pair a line pair ?

Little hard to tell. Possibly #457 or #495 on the line pair, depending upon the watermark. I don't think its a flat plate printing. Possibly #487, #488 or #450 on the two cent. Can't tell if its type II or III and would need to know about a watermark there too. I don't think its a Type I, nor a flat plate printing. Its a late date of cancel for any of the issues, so we can't type it that way. That's my guess, and I could be wrong. What were you told they were when you acquired the cover?

The 4c line pair (nice!) is a Scott 495. The 2c is likely either a Scott 487 or 488, but can't tell without checking whether it has a watermark or not. If not watermarked (most likely), it is 487 or 488.

Why did they have to put the line pair on a Philatelic cover.......

In 1926 the stamps were under 10 years old and "worthless"/fun

Thanks everyone!

Stallzer - yes the 4 cent ones are definitely a line pair.
Al E. Gator - I am not sure how to tell watermarks for stamps that are on cover like this. I acquired this cover about 20 years ago in a box lot of about 20 first flights for something like $100 if I can remember it right. Back then, that was a bargain price for the first flights as first flights and did not take into account the postage used on any of them so no one was trying to claim any of the stamps on these covers were anything of interest.
Orstampman - Thanks, this is helpful
Stallzer - Yeah, I know, but on the other hand this cover actually did go through the US mail and it traveled in the pouch of mail that went on the inaugural flight that was followed ever since as one of the methods of transporting the ordinary mail between the two points. I agree it is philatelic, but I see this as less philatelic than something that was courtesy canceled like most first day or commemorative covers and the like that never went through the mail. I see this sort of thing as a kind of hybrid between philatelic and real mail. And on the other hand, these are still on a cover where so many used examples of these stamps were soaked off long ago.
Chasa - I agree completely, in 1926 these were only worth their face postage value. I would rather have an airmail stamp on a cover that went by airmail, but these particular stamps have now become more than what they were in 1926.

Kimo, philatelic or not I'd love to have a line pair on cover since I collect the W/F coils.

Kimo--Chances are they are #495 and #488, but the only way to check the watermark is to lift the stamps from the cover to check them in fluid, then hinge them back in place. Its just a matter of whether or not you want to know for sure which they are. Philatelic or not Its a very nice cover and I'd keep it in my collection without hesitation.

Al might be correct about the need to lift the stamps to be sure, but I would not be in a rush to do that.

Stallzer would know better than I but I get the impression that finding another line pair on cover, or even on piece, is going to be a long time in coming. Chances are they are rare. That this philatelic piece has one is probably due to the fact that philatelists prefer line pairs and at the time this was a chance to put one up.

If this item on cover is as rare as I imagine, then let the cover be properly recognized intact by a recognized expert group, like APEX, first, and if they say it needs to be lifted and are willing to do that, let them. This way the cover keeps more of its value than if you act independently to satisfy your curiosity.

Excellent advice by essayk.

Again, thanks to everyone for the thoughtful advice!
Before I get it expertised (I am an APS member so I would get the reduced rate from APEX) could anyone give me a ballpark estimate or range on what a 495 Line Pair on cover like this might be worth if it were put into an auction? It is worth the price of expertizing is what I am trying to decide. I see prices of 495 pairs, mint and used, mostly non line pairs but some line pairs as well with prices all over the place.

As for knowing what they would bring being put into an auction that is a tuff one. Just depends on how bad someone wanted the items. Sometimes people get into a bidding war and one could get more than what's it worth. Stranger things have happened.

My 2013 Scott catalog suggests that a #495 single stamp ($7 used) is valued at $10 on cover, which is along the lines of a 43% premium for an "on cover" example. Considering a used line pair is valued at $35, if one were to apply a 43% premium, it would come out to something on the order of $50.

Now you have to figure in the fact that the stamps are far from perfectly centered and on a philatelic cover which could both diminish its "catalog value".

Of course, without seeing the entire cover (to determine if it is clean or damaged) the line pair on cover could raise the value of the philatelic cover, which incidentally is a CAM12 and valued $15 on its own, but an example recently sold for only $5 on ebay as shown below:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1926-CAM-FL...047675.l2557

Although you appear to have a nice cover, I don't think it is going to break the bank in terms of value because of the above recited issues.

Scott Specialized 2014: #495 Line Pair on Cover--$45.00 Color ranging from Brown to Orange brown. #457 Line Pair on Cover--$250.00 (in italics) Color ranging from Light Brown to Brown. That's "catalogue value" on pretty much a plain Jane type cover. As stated, what it worth is what the buyer perceives it to be worth. I agree with essayk, if you are going to sell it, let the APS or whomever lift it if you really want to know which it is before hand. I have had covers where I lifted the stamp and got it expertized, but its a risk doing it yourself and then sending it in. I've only do that where the cancel, tying the stamp, is such that there can be no question about the stamp belonging with the cancel/cover. In spite of having done so, I wouldn't recommend anyone doing it. I can't be sure of the color from the scan, but I'll stay with saying its probably a #495.

Very likely a 495 line pair. Also likely to be worth less to a W-F collector but somewhat more to an CAM collector. I would expect it to perhaps retail in the $20-$25 range.