The Problem With Stamp Collectors, Ebay, And Me

I'm a small ebay seller. I sell items to buy others. I don't do it for the money. If I did I would be eating dirt by now. I like to go through lots and try to find a few gems or items that fit my specialties. Several years ago I found the pictured stamp in a lot. The stamp was without grill and I didn't see anything in the paper to make it appear that it had been pressed out. I sent it off to PSAG to get a cert. It was returned as a Scott 123 1875 reissue by The National Bank Note Co. Used the item listed for $400.00.






I decided to sell the stamp and was looking at what is available and what has sold recently. This is what I found.

8- Items for sale- Prices range from #89.00-$999.00
Only 3 of the items have certs and one is 33 years old. Another cert has the stamp as reperfed at right on the cert but not mentioned by seller. Okay some sellers are proud of their material. That's fine lets check what has sold.

6-items have sold- Prices range from $10.31-119.95
None of the sold items carry a cert.

We see stamp collectors write in all the time asking about grills or the lack of them. Many of these stamps were ironed out years ago by collectors. It is just as easy today to iron the out and sell a $20.00 Scott 112 for $50-$100. There has been recent threads here about unscrupulous dealers and ebay. While I agree we should chase them down and try to keep some respectability to what we do I can't for the life of me figure out why people go and through their money at something that has a high degree of being altered.

Lovely stamp... I hope you do well with your sale...

There's about 10 canceled 123's on ebay right now, ranging
from $89 w/APS Cert, and up...

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odk...3&_sacat=675

Before allowing this thread to balloon into an unjustified attack on ebay sellers, it should be noted that the 1 cent reissue is relatively common unused and is less expensive than the grilled 112. Used copies on the other hand are more expensive making me believe that prudent buyers would insist on a certificate. In the Philatelic Foundation "Opinions" book series there is an article about the 1869 Pictorial reissues and hints on how to identify them. One hint is that the reissues were printed on paper with the mesh going in the opposite direction compared to the original issue. Reissue stamps are either slightly taller or slightly wider depending on the denomination and plate layout. Also, subtle color and paper differences exist in addition to the quality of printing.

It is unlikely that a Pictorial with a pressed out grill can easily be passed off as a reissue. Also, not mentioned above, is the type of cancel likely to be found on a used reissue. Most of the time, used reissue stamps have killer or registry cancels not in use when the Pictorial issue was current. In one case an astute collector noticed a 3 cent stamp with a New York registry cancel listed as a Scott 114 on ebay. He succeeded in buying the stamp for $30, about double catalog for a 114. As he expected it turned out to be a used Scott 125 cataloging at about $25,000 at the time but $40,000 now. Another 125 was also sold on ebay as a 114 at a low price a year or two later.

Sellers who don't know the difference are unlikely to check for a grill before listing. Would it make a difference if the grill was pressed out?

Clark

From my youth, I recall something about a needle in a haystack
(think the recent US 5A-5A-5 strip...)

A bit more seriously though... and from my own experiences as a buyer who might just fall into the aforementioned category.

• I once bought a lot of Buenos Aires steamship fakes because two looked good to me. One came back with a good cert and got flipped. A few more went into my fake collection and the rest were destroyed.
• I am putting together a US reference collection of faked and altered items. I will low-ball items I know to be fake if it will help me recognize an authentic stamp in the future.
• I will bid low on stamps with major faults for inclusion in my great-grandfather's collection.
• I will bid low on Classic US "garbage" to use as decoration on my stamp storage boxes.

That said, I too struggle with what seems to be tons of bad stamps I see on ebay, as well as at shows. Short of pestering the experts here for advise on every lot, I'm not sure what can be done. I suspect that many sellers are simply unfamiliar with what they have, and armed with their trusty Scott catalog just go with what they think they have.

I agree this isn't the thread to beat up on anyone. My frustration is the same most sellers feel. Maybe the Scott 123 that are being sold aren't altered but most will not find out in time. I think the knowledge base to make such decisions is so scattered it makes it hard to find the information.

OK....I give???
What is this thread about???

Are you trying to sell a #123???
Sometimes items are not what you thought they were???
Please enlighten me.

"Only 3 of the items have certs and one is 33 years old."

I have several stamps with certs from the 80's and 90's, just wondering why the age of the cert matter's? Just as long as it has a photo, so you know it is the original item and it is by a major company. Why would when the cert was issued be a factor?

I don't get it also. Look like the OP is not satisfy with the price he will get from his stamp ....

Quote:
"...I can't for the life of me figure out why people go and throw their money at something that has a high degree of being altered."

I am not really joining the discussion but wanted to show my altered 112 for the heck of it.

Was going to toss it but decided way back then add it to the album, looks funky, weird, odd, eye catching on the album page, it has kinda grown on me...( It came in one of my many banker box lots bought, I did not decide to run amok with the scissors one day. )

The normal thing for older certs, say 1985 or earlier is that they did not go into condition, only genuineness. Faults, reperfs, etc were usually not mentioned so it is always a good idea to update those certs, preferably before purchasing if possible.

I also want to add my 2c.

The high cost of certificates (and the time involved) doesn't make good financial sense when dealing with items that only retail for under a certain dollar amount. How much did you spend to certify your 123 with faults? When taking the cost of certification into account, will you make more $$ by selling it with a cert? It's fine if you're doing it to be a good steward, but bad if you're a dealer trying to make a living.

Perhaps a 1c 1869 is not the best example to use to make your point ...

Brian

It's like a parent loving their children in spite of their faults. I have 50+ 1c Franklins in my collection. This one would be a welcome addition :)

Remember back to the options for us nondealers to deaccession stamps pre-Internet. Not pretty, especially for a stamp with faults.

You have to take the good with the bad. ebay gives you a way to get rid of this for something close to fair market value. I suspect in this case the market might not reward you for the price of the certificate, but you never know. A nicely-done listing might separate you from the crowd.

Good luck. If you list it, let us know the listing number.

So I can sell my 114 for a 114a or a 125?

https://goscf.com/t/42577

Good informative points made on a subject I know little about.

Brian (Rielysan) makes a great point regarding the costs for certifications. I have never used an expertizing service, but intend to have several stamps appraised this week at the ASDA Spring New York City Stamp Bourse. I have three US #124 Pictorials without grills (2 used + 1 unused with gum). I want to have these identified as legit in order to trade or sell two for something on my want list.

Having purchased a number of old albums on ebay I can attest to the uncertainty that comes with online auctions. I have found numerous stamps misidentified by presumably unsuspecting collectors. "Buyer Beware" is obviously a primary reason for the deep discounts that have built my collection from online auctions. But without ebay auctions how else would I have afforded my current collection begun in 2011?
My larger purchases have included a 1948 US album w/estimated SCV $3800 -- my winning bid: $415 + shipping. Another 1952 Minkus album appeared to have SCV $2800; I won at $191. Another older US collection I estimated CV $3600 and paid $488 including NYS tax. Those three bids average 11% of estimated CV. What would I have spent buying from a dealer's stock?

I have learned to live with the often misidentified or faulty stamps included in these purchases.
Sometimes, like with my (3) US #124s, purchases are listed as a less valuable issue. But I understand that if even a few of the more valuable stamps had been certified I likely would not have paid the much steeper price required. Seems certificates (I see prices around $35 per) make sense when the item CV is maybe 10X the expertizing fee.

Sorry, but that is very bad advice. The catalog value of the stamp should not be the only factor to be considered when thinking about expertizing. I suggest that other elements are nearly as important. If the item is a coil stamp (for example) issues between 1908-1914, any decent-looking copy over $100. catalog value is a strong candidate for third-party expertizing. So are stamps that are widely faked, despite not cataloging a great deal, such as #315, 461, 519, 534B, etc. All scarcer 19th C. stamps need to be certified.

I suggest that anyone trying to decide whether or not they shoud consider expertizing read my article "Why Have Your Stamps Expertized" which can be accesssed on ebay through my seller name (wrw1943) and look for the "ME", then the list of Guides I've written for ebay.