Auction Return Policy

Hello Everyone,

I was interested in a stamp from a recent Kelleher Auction. It was the type of stamp with a price that I felt I needed to get an PF or APS certificate (it did not have currently have one). I inquired about returns if a certificate came back with a problem and they told me they would only accept returns within 4 weeks of the close of the auction. I followed up with them by suggesting that it would be highly unlikely to submit and get back an opinion within that time frame. I never heard back from them and just skipped that auction. Is this typical? A couple other auction houses I've done business with have a 90 day return policy. Thanks for any opinions you might have.

I offer 2 weeks on ebay. However if anyone really wanted to return something the time frame can be extended. The issue with returns is keeping or having quality scans of the item. Only once did I have someone try to send back a similar stamp. He said he made a mistake and returned the wrong one. Most people are honest and great to work with. I just don't know when dealing in quantity.

The professional auctions in which I participate will extend the return period if the certificate comes back with a negative opinion, provided that you contact them and mail out the stamp for certification prior to the original return deadline. Some auction houses will restrict which certificates they will accept, so that should be made clear as well.

Most auction houses will allow you to buy something subject to certification if you tell them at the time of your bid. Usually, you pay the invoice, they send it off for the cert, and if it comes back good, they bill you for the cost of the cert. If it comes back bad, they refund your money. Surprised that Kelleher doesn't do it that way.

C.

My experience follows that of chipg's. When you submit the bid, you tell them you want to the lot placed on extension and give them a expert or committee. They may send the lot to you, or submit it themselves. Generally, they will extend the return time until you get an opinion before paying the consignor and accept the return if the cert is bad. Normally, a reputable house eats the cost of a bad cert, but not always. Read the terms of sale.

I have put items on extension with Kelleher in the past without problem. As Chip said, I paid for the lots and Kelleher sent them to the PF, they came back with good certs and Kelleher sent me an invoice for the cert fees.
Kelleher's Terms and Conditions seem garbled, but I think the key language is ¶ 7(c) - "If an opinion of a mutually acceptable authority is desired, the period of time within which a lot must be received by Kelleher will be extended in accordance with Condition of Sale 8" However, Condition of Sale 8 pertains to Sales Taxes, so my guess is they rewrote part of the T&C and forgot to modify the internal references.

I too have never had any problems with a Kelleher extension because they sent them to a mutually agreed expertization house after I paid for the lots and certification fees and then they sent them to me with the new certs when they got them back. I do remember that their terms and conditions could have used a little updating but there were never any problems with time limits. I just called them ahead of the auction and verified how it would work on the extensions (mainly because I was used to the other method where I would send the lots for certification and notify the auction house that I was doing so). After winning lots I wanted to put on extension, I called them again and we agreed on which house would do the certification. This was between 1 and 3 years ago so I don't have any recent experience, however.

I just remembered that I didn't pay the certification fees up front; they were billed after Kelleher got the stamps back, as SPQR mentioned. I never had a cert come back bad so don't have any experience with that outcome with Kelleher.

The auction firms would want to send them directly to the expertising committee, as they would want to make sure that nothing changed between the time they hammered the lot down and it was sent for a cert (like getting sucked up in a vacuum cleaner). That way, both sides are protected - you because finalizing the purchase is contingent on the certification, them because the stamps never leave their control, and you've paid them more than they need to remit to the consignor, which they'll hold back until the certification process is complete. (I've sold things at auction and had the part of my payment that was subject to a cert withheld until they cleared).

Thanks for the replies everyone. Looks like several of you had a good experience ... it probably would have been better for me to directly communicate with the company over the phone. Here's the email response I got back which seemed pretty straight forward at the time and prompted me to abandon the idea of bidding ... this was from just this past February ...

"We apologize for the delay in getting back to you regarding the sending of a lot that does not have certification already to the PFC. Our extension policy is as follows and is contained on our website under terms of sale:

Any lot which is declared otherwise than genuine by a generally recognized authority is returnable, provided such lot is received by DSS/Kelleher within four weeks of the date of the auction. Proof that a mutually acceptable authority declines to express an opinion is not grounds for the return of a lot.

We thank you for your patience with this matter.

Best regards,

Heather Ashielfie
Administrative Assistant/Receptionist
Daniel F. Kelleher Auctions, LLC
60 Newtown Road, PMB 44
Danbury, CT 06810 USA

That four-week limit is highly unusual in the industry. My guess it's because most of the material involved is owned by the house and they want to disuade bidders from seeking expertization if the buyer fears that the 4-week limit will pass. For what it's worth (and I do realize that many buyers have a "favorite" expert service, so my feelings surely won't get hurt), but anyone wanting an opinion back in PLENTY of time to conform to a 4-week or even two-week return will be happy to know that I can turn submissions over in a week or less (and express service (3 days) is available for an additional $5. fee). See particulars at www.stampexpertizing.com.

I hate the idea that buyers can't have a reasonable amount of time to seek and get, expert opinions and the industry standard is, I believe 90 days. When we ran public auctions, it was (as my old memory serves me) six months.

Chipg's advice is excellent - read the Terms of Sale carefully as some firms have differing rules than the industry standard (as is apparently the case here).

I'd ask Kelleher which of their "recognized authorities" can routinely turn certificates around in 16 days (I'm assuming 3 days for bidder to receive lot from Kelleher, 3 days shipping to expertizer, 3 days shipping back to bidder once opinion rendered, 3 days shipping from bidder to Kelleher if bad opinion. That leaves 16 days for the opinion.)

4 weeks is the most restrictive extension timeframe I've seen. Clearly unreasonable, IMO.

Just looking at Kelleher's T&C again and saw another unusual term

¶ 7(g) Lots with existing Certificates from the Philatelic Foundation or Professional Stamp Experts, dated January 1, 2004 and later are sold "as-is" and are based upon the description on the certificate. Such lots may not be returned for any reason, including but not limited to a contrary opinion/certificate.

Most houses will not allow re-expertization for certs that are less than 5 years old, while Kelleher is extending this to 11 years. However, the new Kelleher was started in 2009, so 2004 would have been 5 years prior to that date. I wonder if Kelleher just forgot to update the terms with the passage of time.

Agree 100%. But they seem to recognize my opinions as I've done a number of them where the item needed to be returned and so far as I know, there has never been any problem with a refund. But even so, that is unfair to clients who specifically want a particular service.

I purchased some items from Regency from the Hartford sale. When I received them, I noticed that one looked like a different variety than stated. I emailed them, we talked, it was sent off to the Greene Foundation, and they gave me no hassles. It came back clean, and everyone was happy. I sent them off a note, that everything was good to go. Will buy from them again, no problem.