1875 Special Printing On Cover ?

Ryan,
It is good that you are defending new posters but do you agree that there is line that exists between a new hobbyist wanting to learn and a new hobbyist who wants others to do all the work for them?

I see a lot of posts in which a new poster asks good questions, even if they are assuming that they have a rarity when they don't. I don't think most of us mind that unless they new hobbyist keeps the thread going by arguing or pushing back. Heck, we had that one fellow in Canada (is he back now?) who would refuse to listen to anyone that he didn't have a rarity and would then turn around and make a listing on ebay trying to sell it as a rarity.

And then we have had a few posters who appear to not to want to read and learn; they appear to simply want others to identify their stamps/covers as a free service. If a person has given something a college try at identifying the item, but has come up empty, I see nothing wrong with asking additional questions. But once they have been told how to id the Washington/Franklin series, is it appropriate to keeping asking for additional ids? Would it not be better for them to demonstrate that they have tried to id the item themselves in their posts and ask for verification rather than simply ask for another id?

And sometimes we get a thread like this one, which can be taken in several ways. And one of those ways is that the OP was intentionally vague on the source of the image and stamp id; almost as if he was trying to 'catch' others in the identification process or demonstrate that he does indeed have rarities in his collection. I think your point is that we should give the OP the benefit of doubt and that this is not what he was doing at all; that his intention is that he is trying to learn more. Some folks may be willing to do this, others may be a bit more cynical. Point is this could have been avoided with better communication.

This can be hard medium to communicate in without misunderstandings. And in any medium it is dicey to make assumptions about another person's motivations; no one lives inside another person's head. This forum forms a confluence between 'old school' philately (where a person needed to 'pay' the high entry fee of by spending considerable time and money learning the hobby) and the paradigm shifted internet age (where information is available for free and in real time). This can lead to considerable amounts of natural friction between the two perspectives.

So while I agree that the 'old school' folks need to show some patience with the newer hobbyists; I also feel that the new posters need to demonstrate that they are trying to learn. And pushing back or arguing that they have a rarity is never going to be taken well in a forum like this; even if it thinly veiled as 'learning' and using extra 'smiles'. I think that both perspectives should be willing to do what it take to keep this community a friction-free zone.
Don

Don,
I do agree in that there are many factors at play and that we all should strive for the best in terms of everyone enjoying and benefiting from the forum. How best to do so is not always evidently clear, but character bashing and jumping to conclusions does no one any good.

I also agree that we get both those wanting to learn and those that don't understand that we are not a free service. I also observe that there are many that don't fit into a dichotomy. The line differentiating any of them is blurred by many complicating factors.

Yes, some posters don't demonstrate a willingness to learn. At times I don't mind being a "free service" because there are many situations where it is asking too much of a poster to learn for themselves. For example an international collector that wants help with a few Washington/Franklins? I have no problem with them at all. Similarly I am not knowledgeable about perfins but do get a few from time to time. Others here on this subforum have graciously helped me in identifying them and telling me how common or not that they are. On the other end of the spectrum, dealing with posters that I don't care to respond to is subjective to if I see that they are already being helped by others, or if they are asking for too much help, or both. As always, no one has any obligation to anyone else and a simple solution exists for those who subjectively deem something not worth their time to reply to. Ignoring topics/threads/posters/replies/etc. is a good method of distancing one's self from anything that bothers them.

The issue that I most want to address is the benefit of an objective and welcoming forum atmosphere. That is never going to be easily achieved. Misunderstandings will always occur on the Internet where there is no context of body language nor knowing who one is speaking to amongst a myriad of other factors. I agree that communication is key. I truly believe that given the uncertainty of this medium that we should all err to giving the benefit of a doubt. For example, identifying Trolls can be difficult if they are subtle and savvy. They derive benefit from intentionally evoking a negative emotional response to their behavior. If everyone treats them with kindness, understanding, and objectivity then they are forced to quit and seek other avenues with a higher reward to effort ratio. Their other option is to "up" their game in hopes of provoking what they want. The higher that they have to "up" their game, the easier it is to identify them for what their true motivations are.



I understand how this type of person can be frustrating, but many do not even get an informative reply before the witch-hunting begins. As agreed upon, it can be very difficult to understand one's underlying motives. It isn't a stretch of the imagination that one could misperceive confusion as "pushing back". I can identify with newbies wanting to know if what they have is rare. I was myself in that position a year ago when I started collecting stamps again after a hiatus starting in my early youth. Despite the many very informative threads here that I have read, I still do not know with certainty the exact identification of many of my stamps. Many don't have my intense desire to absorb as much knowledge as possible. Even if all did I cannot fault them because despite all of the great information here, the knowledge necessary to make difficult identifications of many are still elusive to me. It took me a long time to realize that some of my stamps may forever remain inconclusively identifiable due to indeterminate attributes.

There are many great resources such as the revived 1847usa.com, but the information contained in them is often difficult for many to learn from, let alone understand fully. Much of philatelic understanding comes from extrapolating from the information provided. I don't fault someone for having difficulty identify a Washington/Franklin even after them being pointed to a resource and give a good amount of time to do their best by learning on their own.

Often times, better educational tools are needed. Some learn better from visual versus written materials. Some have very little background of the physical sciences. Some just don't have the time to devote to learning the intricacies of a particular series of issues but do derive enjoyment from collecting them. I am fully in support of creating better educational material that our forum administrator Bobby is willing to host ( https://goscf.com/t/45357 ). With great effort of searching, much information about esoteric issues is available, but has never been conglomerated.

There may be a correlation between "old school" folks and "get off my lawn" attitudes. Regardless, civility and not jumping to conclusions are what I see as simply good policies. Unless one has strong evidence to make an assertion, then they should try to avoid clouding the atmosphere. Have a feeling about a member being disruptive? Fine, question them (literally and figuratively) and gather evidence before publicly stating your grievance. Not only can our combined efforts collaborate to advance philately, we can also utilize our collective think tank to determine best how to deal with those that disparage the spirit of the forum.

In summary, I agree with you on many things. However, I want to point out that there are many intricacies at play. So many so that it will take much time to develop best methods of dealing with all of them. In the meantime I believe that we should err on the side of the benefit of the doubt. Our forum will continue to improve for the benefit of all as long as we keep civility and friendliness in mind.

Ryan

I fully support Ryan's position about this form maintaining civility toward each other. We need to foster a welcoming attitude as much as possible. I'd not like to see the "mud slinging" triads I've seen (more accurately read) on another popular form develop here. So far they haven't degenerated to that, but we've had some trading of "barbs" that we should avoid--they serve no productivity. Privately e-mailing is always available for those kind of discussions between members if you really want to get into it. Trolling is inevitable but sooner or later they will unmask themselves.

Hey at no time did I say this was this was my stamp. All I said was that this is one of my favorite stamps and that all I could do was ID the PREF AND THE PERSON ON THE FRONT so you can all stop with the Witch hunt. AND THANKING PETER saying that's a pretty stamp and he asking me if I could scan the first on I posted that good was in no way shape or form eluding to anything but thank you for the compliment. OF THAT IS A PRETTY STAMP... was not me saying a thing about me owning the stamp that I posted. IF THIS is how shallow some of you people are than maybe I need to find a sight with more mature people .

Thank you for returning to the thread Kingston... Now could we return to the topic?

I had asked some reasonable questions about your initial impressions of the OP stamp. Your reply did not address them, but I really would like to know what you were thinking. So here they are again:




I would like to know what you think about what you have, and why.

essayk. The reason I think it dose not have gum on the back is because. I can pick up on the stamp and and at the far end from the head. It has some type of glue on it holding it to the envelope . The portion of the stamp that I can fold back is very clean, Gum is not present on the back of the stamp or on the envelope. As far as the white paper I have quit a few of stamps that look like this one on the envelope. And the soft paper types I have some to compare to and also some hard paper types.I only know the flick method that A stamp dealer showed me at the stamp show how to tell. And I would say it is a soft paper.

If it is soft paper, can it be an 1875 Special Printing?

How can you tell?

Do you have a Scott US Specialized catalog?

Yes I do have the specialized catalog. 2015 and also the Specialized catalog of united states stamps. Fifty-first Edition.
Plus the 2015 us/BNA buy H.E.Harris & o.

Finely A better Picture only 1 hr this time lol

Kingstonstamper, you have done it! That is a great picture; hope you remember how you did it!
One word of caution. Whatever you do, please do not take this stamp off the cover. On cover it is worth a little, off cover it would have very little value!

Peter

This is a different envelope with a stamp that looks like the first one. I see the shading above the head is more full and darker. And yes they are both mine.

Hey Peter thank you for hanging in there with me. I'm getting better. One day at a time.

If the paper on this stamp seems to be the same as the paper on the first one you showed, then that first stamp is a #182 American Bank Note Co. soft paper. It was issued with gum, but may have lost it prior to being used on the envelope where you found it - hence the need for the spot of glue.

This next 1c stamp is a #206 American Bank Note Co. re-engraved 1c of 1881.

With the reference numbers given here, you can go to your copy of the US Specialized and read up on both of these. There are also notes in the catalog describing the design differences and other special features of each type.

Enjoy.

Thank you for the help and the Identification essayk.