Uh-Ohhh. It Don't Look Good!

Hmmmm. Tell tale suspicious signs here?

Here one sold:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/131643264766

Noting a cat of $275 and a high bid of $242.50.

Location was "London, Kentucky"
I wonder if that has something in common with "Birmingham, Alabama"?
British connection, don't you know.

Same pic? used here for an offering from "Lake Mary, Florida"?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/181937552721

Should I be careful?

YES! Looks like the very same picture to me.

Peter

The shipping location changes based upon which re-shipper company he is using, but both 'sellers' are 'Based in United Kingdom'. In my opinion this is the same seller, PR. I have previously communicated with 'both' of these sellers and they responded in the exact same way, with threats and insults.
Don

Can someone fill me in on what is being said? I'm new and don't seem to be able to read between the lines, but feel like its something I should know about.

Also what is a re-shipper service?

Thanks

ps: I did look at both auctions and the pictures to me seem to show the same stamp.

dsmith, welcome to the group. They are discussing an apparent listing by what this forum terms the British Cartel, which is on or more accounts one ebay associated with one or more people in the UK who appear to use shill bidding and other tactics to repeatedly list and sell the same item, either to drive up the price or to generate false positive feedback for the accounts, which then can be sold to others. Search British cartel here on SCF for many threads. I may have omitted some of the nuances above and the foregoing represents my interpretation and opinion.



Edited due to typo

Don, I'm the high bidder ($16.38) on RE-ENTRY's duplicated listing. Should be interesting to see if or when they pull the offer.

The odd thing to me is that MINT STAMPS apparently sells only British stamps.

Carl,
Mint Stamps has sold many, many US stamps. You can check out Stamp Smarter and filter the list for 'mint' (in seller field). It will return quite a few listings of US stamps.

Also keep in mind that this name has a history as shown below.
Don

dsmith,
Some sellers will use a 're-shipper' company for various reasons, some legitimate and some not. Basically it is like having a PO Box in another city or country; but they also add additional value-added services. Another situation is that a seller might be listing for another person, like on consignment, but the seller doesn't physically have the material.

So looking at the item location in ebay doesn't really tell you where the actual seller is located. To see where the seller is actually located you must click on the sellers name in a listing and look for were it says, "Based in ....".
Don

Edit: One reason to note 'seller location' is that buyers may want to execute a return. There have been cases where the seller may tell you that you cannot return something to the shipping location but rather back to his home country. ebay does not allow this but some sellers will try it anyway.

Could some of this "shill bidding" actually be money-laundering? Why would even inexperienced collectors overpay to that degree?

I have heard about that pattern before, and I understand your thinking, but my personal experience has been a bit different.

I recently bought a nice item from these folks that was properly described and passed my inspection. It was priced just slightly less than what a similar item, in the same grade, had realized in a recent Kelleher auction, (after allowing for house surcharge). So everything was above board. However,

the item listing said the item was in Birmingham, Alabama, yet it seemed to take forever to get here from such a local origin. When it did arrive I did not recognize it, because it had been "shipped" from a US address in New England. However, the contents had return address information for a location in Birmingham, England. Only upon opening did I realize who/what I had actually been dealing with. I suspect the delay was the time it took them to dispatch it from there to the location in New England But it also struck me that the seller could have filled in the item location with just the word "Birmingham" and the listing software may have defaulted to Alabama if the seller had been claiming a domestic sale. Spoofing the system, so to speak.

Hence my speculation about "London, Kentucky." Who knows what "domestic distribution office" will send this one out?!

As the high bidder on the stamp, I contacted the seller.



The reply, if any, should be interesting.

cjpalermo1964,

Thanks for the welcome and explanation.

51Studebaker,

So is a re-shipper is just another word for a mail forwarder?

Thanks.

dsmith,
Yes. Some sellers use this to add obfuscation to the transaction. It can give a buyer a sense of confidence that he isn't buying offshore when they really are. It also muddles the jurisdiction in the event of any legal actions. But as mentioned, they are also legitimate reasons to use these kinds of services.
I know for sure that this seller will ask buyer to return items to his Great Britain location. I also know for sure that ebay will side with the buyer in this situation if the you elevate the case. I also know that doing this will then open you to retribution from some sellers including but not limited to, having them buy cheaper items from you with the purpose of then leaving you negative feedbacks. There are also other actions taken in an attempt to cause you much heartburn and headaches. It is all kind of sad.
Don

Don... this is a lesson learned long ago by many sellers many different
endeavors... in our ebay activities (hard drives), we sell under one ID
and buy under another, so there's no way to make a connection, which
avoids retribution (retaliatory feedback) entirely...

I hope the above serves as 'food for thought' to those whom may be
concerned with this potential issue...

Randall

Randall,
Good point.
Unfortunately I have seen cases where the retribution gets much worse than simple negative feedbacks. This included the establishment of fake web pages with really nasty things on it (read as, the person setup Facebook pages and stand alone web sites intended to look like they were owned by the person who the revenge is being sought). And of course, they also send in 'ripoff' report to the infamous scam web site which then extorts money to have the libelous comments removed. I have firsthand knowledge of this kind of thing happening more than once to different buyers.

Bottom line, the least of your worries may be that you lost some money on a bad listing with certain sellers. Buying from this kind of buyer and thinking that you are covered because you can return an item and/or have ebay back you up is to ignore these other risks. I really wish the philatelic press would apply a few hard-hitting reporters who would be willing to expose this kind of actively in our hobby.
Don

Another cartel auction that is completed and not credible. Dave H. alerted me on this one because it was a very exotic shade and there's no way on earth that the auction could have gone this high.
Hereis the item #381469224331