Used 315-- Fake Or Real?-- Be Nice

please understand I have seen and own fakes of this issue (315). I understand issue of cutting perfs off a 304 to make imperf 315. I understand minimum size measurements in margins for certification.





now look at this one:


note lines left and bottom- is this imperf single form centerline block????? I'm not familiar enough to know if 304 could have these lines as well from center line block. Next question.. are they real lines??? Any help appreciated. Don't gun me down too bad.

My non-expert guesses: top 3, all SC 304's. bottom: real lines from center of sheet, I also suspect SC 304 as the 2-straightedge positions can have very wide margins.

Top 3 definite 304s. Are you saying that 304 came in sheets with same type of "guide lines". I'm trying to figure out if 304 would have these guide lines on both sides when it was produced in sheets. I assume the answer is yes

according to scott, 304 was produced in plates of 400 (four panes of 100 each)





my assumption is that this is a fake, (actual 304) but must be the bottom left corner stamp of the right upper pane. This is a sheet of 100 looked up on siegel-- looks like a guide line present on upper and left? Thus this stamp has 2 straight edges from middle of panes???? Am I logically assuming this correctly?

A great candidate for expertization....

#315 and #304 were printed into sheets of 400....
Where as a centerline block does exist for #315
it does not for a #304.

Kevin,

That is what I was thinking but now I'm second guessing it based on above sheet of stamps??

What does the stamp with the two centerlines measure? You've stated your aware it won't receive a cert. with less than a 21mmx25mm measurement; just curious as to the measurement. I recall, from a previous post on this subject, Bill Weiss mentioning that the presence of a guide line was a red flag for a trimmed 304. Perhaps you can search and find that post to clarify his comment.

rgstamp....one reason to my thinking it has a posibility
is that the left edge does NOT look to be scissors/razor cut. (printing)
It has the look of a paper fold and to be torn apart

Margin left side about 2.1 mm. Bottom 1.6 mm

Sorry I mean 21mm x 24.5mm... Just under cert limits?

I just read bill Weiss post from last July regarding this issue. Super informative!! Lazy eye thing, centerline , etc. very helpful ...
Thanks

Kevin make a pretty good point--depends on how the experts view that. Its close on the measurements--will be interesting to see how ridged the experts are on that measurement, if you send it in. The sleep eye thing is an indication of a 315 but not all 315s have it, as I remember from the article. Good luck with it!

Note how straight and rough the cut is along the two guideline sides, which are the cuts that separated the perforated sheet of 400 into 4 panes of 100, following the guideline. This stamp comes from the corner of a pane of 100 perforated stamps, as rgstamp illustrated.

The imperforate sheets were NOT divided into panes. They were produced at the request of vending and affixing machine companies who stripped them into strips of 20 stamps from whole panes (or half panes in some instances), which is how you get guide line pairs with flat-plate coils every 20 stamps.

So to be genuine the stamp would have complementary scissor cuts on all four sides because it would have been obtained from the center of the sheet, not from a corner. Further, the imperforate sheets were obtained by collectors and the best position piece in a pane of 400 is the guideline block, so why would someone have destroyed a centerline block in order to use one stamp? Reality is that imperforate flat-plate stamps having two guidelines are just about always trimmed perforated issues.

I disagree




Centerline blocks were not collected then
like they are now




YES...but not all.

Thank you tipzi, alligator, and Kevin. All of your posts have improved my knowledge.

Check out this link to Richard Doporto's site

http://www.slingshotvenus.com/stamp...able315.html

A group of collectors were able to obtain some left over sheets of 315. It was reported that they cut the sheets up into panes of 25 leaving no centerline pairs or blocks. A second group of sheets was believed to have been purchased by a New York dealer. The surviving position pieces are believed to be from the second group.

This stamp was trimmed by Richard Kiusalas to show just how large a fake 315 could be. Note that the sheet margin edges are much rougher than the two trimmed edges. This is typical of fakes cut from a corner copy.

Clark