Gutter Snipes

DJD described a snipe to Tina as being the selvedge. So what is the Gutter ? To my eyes, a gutter and selvedge describe different things completely.

Isn't this fun

Londonbus1....Loves to be confused

For US stamps, which are printed in large sheets and then cut in to 2/4/6... panes that are packaged and sold at the post office, the gutter usually refers only to the space that exists BETWEEN stamp panes (before they are cut and packaged for delivery). This is similar to how I've heard the term used by non-American collectors -- the space BETWEEN panes. The blank white space along the edges of the uncut sheet are what we usually refer to as selvage, although there may be additional marginal markings on the selvage.

When the full sheet is cut properly into panes, the full gutters are lost and simply appear similar to be selvage. If you are familiar with marginal markings and the original layout of the sheet, then you can tell which selvage were originally part of a gutter (remember the Dag Hammarskjold invert thread?). Without that knowledge, then they are most easily distinguished by the presence of gutter pairs or gutter snipes.

k

So we are talking about US stamps here as I understand it.
So a snipe is a freak/error and only that ? At least from your explanation it appears to be.
If all the Gutters are Guillotined into panes and all goes according to plan, there can be no snipes...can there?
So Now I can understand there being a mark-up on these stamps as DJD was asking. I can also understand why they are collected.

In GB and Israel philately, stamp with Gutter [snipe] is worth the same as a stamp without. The value only goes up when there is a stamp on either side of the Gutter....a Gutter pair. And where it applies, a Tete-Beche Gutter pair usually has greater value.

Also, a Gutter pair with markings, like Traffic Lights or a design connected to the issue, also have mark-ups, some quite considerable.
There are many such markings on Australia stamps for example.

Londonbus1....Did I answer D.Giles post yet ?

Yes, Londonbus1, that is correct. In general, gutter snipes are NOT normal here in the US; BEP simply made a mistake in cutting the full sheets.

Now that USPS sells press sheets (since the 1990s), it's possible for the collector to produce gutter pairs and gutter snipes. However, the term gutter snipes usually refers to the freaks that were unintentionally produced and sold by USPS; these stamps are ones NOT available as uncut press sheets.

Also, as I had mentioned and you noted about the traffic light pairs and tete-beche gutter pairs, in many other countries these are not considered rare, although they are collectible positions. There are a small handful that command a noticeable premium, but those are by far the exceptions, not the norm.

This is what I like about this site. It has a good balance of collectors from world-wide, giving us all a better understanding of how stamps are collected in other places.

k

What a great thread
I respectfully disagree with the premise that the "Gutter snipe"
Must have a portion of the other stamp.
I believe the the gutter portion must have perforations on both sides.
The above blocks from KHJ are good examples.
This scan is also an example of a gutter with a partial view of the other side of the adjoining stamp.

David

KHJ
are the Prexie Gutter Snipe blocks for sale?
David

Sorry, Londonbus1, I also missed a couple of posts, including 1-2 of yours. The laptop I'm currently using doesn't scroll well sometimes.

Yes, we are talking strictly US stamps, when discussing gutter snipes.

Yes, ALL of the scans shown by DJD are gutter snipes. Those stamps were never released as uncut press sheets. They are production freaks that got through "quality control" into public hands.

All that is required to be considered a gutter snipe is a "full gutter". That's the criteria used by most gutter snipe collectors I know. Most collectors also want one full undamaged stamp attached -- just as if you collected only stamps and wanted an undamaged stamp.

Regarding having part of an additional stamp, that is more of a collector preference. Some collectors like to have that on gutters that have no marginal markings, because it shows that the gutter is genuine, and not just a stamp with a wide selvage perforated to make it appear as a gutter snipe. However, having part of the second stamp sometimes makes the stamp look unbalanced, so some collectors don't like having that "extra stamp part".

DJD, the prexie gutter snipes are not mine, but belong to a dealer friend of mine. I will email you a link to the item when I return home tomorrow.

k

geeeee shoot golly now im really confused I will scan some of what I have later when im home at a friends house and look at me on the forum (addicted to stamping)cause I do have some USA with sleveage on them thats me

Tina,

Just use this basic criteria: does the selvage have perforations on 2 opposite sides. Then it "may" be a gutter snipe. If the selvage has perforation only on one side or on 2 adjacent sides, then it is not a gutter snipe.

k

....unless your stamp is from Israel, then the selvedge will definitely have one straight edge and perfs on the other three sides....and it won't be a gutter snipe !

What a divine thread this is.
An award for DJD please for the thread of the Month.

Londonbus1....now there's an idea

I've enjoyed reading this tread, just have not had anything to add to this topic.
But I've have the sudden urge to go snipe hunting!

Here snipe, snipe, snipe!
Here snipe, snipe, snipe!

A snipe in hand is better than two in...

k

I have emailed you the link to the seller's listing (not me).

KHJ
Thank you Kim,for your effort.
The seller prefers not to sell to Canada.
David

My apologies David, I was not aware of that. He is a good man, and I'm sure he has a good reason.

Sorry.

k