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Gutter Snipes

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Pillar Of The Community
1092 Posts
Posted 07/29/2009   8:20 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add tina to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
ok here are some usa which is which and what is what?

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Pillar Of The Community
United States
6756 Posts
Posted 07/29/2009   8:30 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add khj to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Those are all blocks with selvage. Some of the selvage has marginal markings.

The Lindbergh Trans-Atlantic flight block has some guide markings.

The Skilled Hands block does not appear to have any selvage markings.

The Dance block has a Mr. Zip and copyright inscription.

The Colonial Craftsmen block has the Bicentennial Era emblem.

None of them are gutter blocks/snipes. Remember, in general, the selvage must have perforation on opposite sides.

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Pillar Of The Community
Israel
6191 Posts
Posted 07/31/2009   5:02 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Londonbus1 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I cannot let this thread go to bed, it seems a shame after all we've been through.
So here is a lesson in terminology and pricing from the Israel side.....but I'm no expert !

It was great for me to learn about Gutter snipes of the USA variety. I had no idea in the beginning thay they were freaks/errors or that they were more valued [in monetary terms] than a normal single stamp.
So I learned lots....thanks everyone.
In Israel the situation is slightly different.
Let me begin with the sheet I showed earlier in the topic.



The above sheet is called a Tete-Beche sheet. It was printed for use in Booklets but was available in limited quantities from the Philatelic service. There are a number of sheets in this format, all with definitive stamps, the only exception being the UPU issue of 1950. When guillotined for inserting into booklet covers, they are cut horizontally above and below the row of Flower gutters. On other issues, there were other such markings. So this sheet is for two booklets of 20.
As seen earlier it is possible to break the sheet up and produce Gutter pairs, T-B gutter pairs or even hearts of sheets, the centre 4 stamps with gutters. For these items, there is a mark-up, for some issues they have good value.
However, a single stamp with Gutter is worth no more than a single stamp. Indeed, in Israel Philately it is deemed odd or silly. If anyone collects in this way, then it is only through personal choice.

The same can be said of the following T-B Gutter pairs too.





The gutters are quite special on the first scan, I call them the Star of David Watch strap gutter ! I do not have booklets of this issue so cannot comment as to where the chopping takes place but again, it is probably above and below the 'strap'. On the lower scan, it could well be cut between the two colour lines but again, I have no booklets of this issue.
But if not in a pair, same value as single stamp.

All Israel Postage stamps , with the exception of the Tete-Beche sheets, are issued with descriptive 'Tabs' under, or to the sides of, the stamp. All stamps are issued in Tabbed sheets, the bottom Row having the tabs. On larger sheet sizes, the ratio of tabs to untabbed stamps can be 1:10, which is why many Israel issues are valauble with Tabs and not so without. Most collectors of Israel stamps collect with Tabs. On some sheets, the Tabs are at the sides and can be collected with Tab at either right or left !
Confusing isn't it.
I have had to dig deep for the issues shown above and below, I usually only give my Israel stuff an airing when I clean them !
But here are examples of Tabs.





Tabs bottom [Weizmann] and Tabs sides [Israel Flag].
The area under or to the left and right of the tab, is what we call selvedge/selvage. Only this area of the sheet is called selvedge. The sides and the top areas around the stamps are called margins. They have to be distinguished in this way. So a stamp with Tab but without selvedge has very little mark-up, it must have the attached selvedge ...the straight edge bottom.
As an example, the first set of Israel stamps from 1948 [Doar Ivri] has a catalogue value 12 times greater with Tabs than without. [Thats thousands of dollars !].
Nowadays, the sheets are much smaller in size, and on some there are 5 tabbed stamps and 5 not. So the difference in value is very little.

The examples shown with selvedge are from the earlier years of Israel Post. Most stamps after 1965 were issued without selvedge.

Wow ! It's possible I missed something so you may hear from me again [Groan I can hear!].
Next time, Great Britain Gutters.

Londonbus1......Not in the Gutter yet !
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Edited by Londonbus1 - 07/31/2009 5:11 pm
Pillar Of The Community
USA
3315 Posts
Posted 07/31/2009   5:19 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add laswabbie to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Great mini-lesson London!

I knew a lot of people collect only with tabs, but I wasn't aware that most do.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
6756 Posts
Posted 07/31/2009   5:24 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add khj to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Great info, Londonbus1!!

Definitely clarified several things for me regarding Israeli stamps!

I've seen the term "short tab" and "full tab" sometimes used.

Is the "short tab" basically the tab without the selvage?
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Pillar Of The Community
Israel
6191 Posts
Posted 07/31/2009   5:44 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Londonbus1 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Is the "short tab" basically the tab without the selvage?



Yes, the short tab is the one without selvedge. And it's amazing the number of times I have wriiten to auction sellers [ ebay etc] about his. They think the value is the same or they don't know what a short tab is. I try to explain but sometimes get a very angry reply !!
Here, collectors, in the main, will tear off a short tab because of it's strange appearance.
Full tab or nothing !
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
6756 Posts
Posted 07/31/2009   6:12 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add khj to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the explanation of short tab, Londonbus!

I had wondered about it to the extent that I avoided bidding on some Israel tab collections because they were described as "short tabs". That probably explained why the collections did not sell at all.
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