Help Identifying A Washington

I've been going through a collection and came across this Washington imperf. I am *horrible* when it comes to typing these issues.

Here's my thinking:
This type of imperf can be a Scott's 409, 459, 482, 532, 533 or 534. The design measures 18.5 X 22 millimeters so it most likely isn't a rotary press type. That rules out the 459. I've never seen a 409 or a 482 that didn't have a private perforation (Schermack etc.) so that leaves 532, 533 or 534. They are distinguished by type IV, V, VI or VII. None of them have watermarks.













I'm probably missing the obvious but I'm stumped. I suspect it's a type V or VI but I'm usually wrong.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks!
Dan

While it is difficult to tell from a scan, these to my eye do not look like offset printings. The stamps just look a little too "crisp" . Offsets have a vary flat look and there is a slight blurring of the design. Are you confident that they are offset? You can tell offset fairly easily by placing the tip of your tongs next to the frameline and gently pulling it across. You can feel the raised inkline from intaglio printing. There will be no raised ink if it is offset.

Alternatively, tilt the stamp at an angle and see if you can see the ridges of ink. Usually you can.

Duh to me. In looking at the reverse, the transfer of ink common to flat plate printings is very evident. Almost certainly, these are not offset.

My comment won't be of much help at this time...BUT...I ordered a set of #408 and 409 (according to ebay seller stampnstuff) in an imperforate vertical coil format. It has been delivered to the 3rd party who will bring it to me in late September. I ordered both as paste up coil strips of 4 to further assure that they are indeed what he claims them to be. When I have them in my hot little hands, I'll scan and post them to this thread.

Meanwhile, you can check him out on ebay. He still had some up for sale a few days ago. He also claims that he has the coil roll from which he cuts off what you order. I suppose he has gotten hold of a coil roll for private vending machine companies that had somehow not been perforated.

Marty

Absolutely not confident!

That's why I scanned the back. At first I thought it was a 409 but I got a brain cramp because I have never seen an imperforate coil 409. Every 409 I've seen has had a private perforation. Of course my next thought was woo-hoo! .

Then reality set in.

I am eager to see what Marty has to post.

It looks like I'm going to have to check for a SL watermark. (I hate doing that! ) A 409 has a SL watermark and the offsets have none.

Of course if I don't find a watermark, it wouldn't completely rule out a 482 either, a flat plate with no watermark.

Dan

Dan,
If you are not yet aware of the site, www.1847usa.com has a super chart to help ID 2c Washingtons and other Washington/Franklins. Look under WASHINGTON FRANKLIN WORKSHEETS on the home page.

Marty

Marty,

I did a quick check on ebay for stampnstuff and didn't find any of his imperf 409's.

I did see other imperforate vertical coils though. That was new to me! I thought all the 409 coils had Binkerhoff, Farwell, Mailometer, Schermack or Automatic Vending perfs.

You learn something new every day!

Dan

Marty,

1847usa.com is an excellent site. I was going through that chart before I posted.

However, when you get to http://www.1847usa.com/washfrank/de...imperffp.htm it talks only about private perforations. That seemed to confirm my earlier (and probably now erroneous assumption) that coils only had private perfs.

That, along with a lot of wishful thinking, led me to post my query.

Dan

Hi, It's me again. After checking Scott Specialized I feel pretty sure that it is either 409 or 452. If it is watermarked, it is 409, if it is not watermarked it is 452. My 409 is imperf and not privately perforated. Same with my 482. Your stamp is almost surely flat plate printed because of the ink transfer on the reverse.

Too bad it is not 459. That's a real find.

Danstamp, do you specialize in the Washington/Franklins? They are my absolutely, hands down, favorite of the US series. I have no hope of ever completing them, though. There are too many great rarities (translation--expensive) in the series. One variety that I can, according to Scott, get. It is the Kansas City roulette. Blocks of four are in the hundreds range, and not the thousands. Have you ever heard of one of these for sale? Certainly, the Orangeburg coil (389), 476A, and the 1914 compound perforations are out of my league. Also one or 2 of the bluish paper ones and one of the first government coils (the 10 cent I think).

Dan,

I suppose stampnstuff was about sold out when I last checked 2 or 3 weeks ago. There were 2 listings then. 3 months ago he had quite a few listed for impeforate verticle 408 and 409. When I get mine around the end of the month, I'll compare them with 1847usa washington guides and then post a photo.

Marty

Wonderful site
www.1847usa.com
David (DJD)

Rohumpy,

It was my inexperience with Washington/Franklins that led to this thread.
I thought that all 402's had private perforations. That's why (and a lot of wishful thinking ) I dismissed the ink transfer on the reverse that is characteristic of flat plate printing.

One of my current projects is to wade through my accumulation of W-F's and to improve my collection.

I'm aware of the varieties you mentioned but they aren't in my collection.

Does anyone here have one in their collection??


Marty,
I'm eager to see your post!

Dan

Dan, Just yesterday, I received my 408 and 409 imperf. vertical coils. The photo below and a second one of the paste-up pair are on my updated 05/02/09 post titled "Imperforate vertical coil of Scott 409 design."



Marty

Marty,

Thanks for the pics! I've been following your other topic, "Imperforate vertical coil of Scott 409 design." with interest.

When I initially posted this topic, I hadn't encountered a 409 without a private perforation. Now I know better!

I learned a lot from this and your other topic.

Thanks!

Dan

You're welcome Dan. The more I learn about the Washington Franklin issues, the more I find that I don't really don't know much at all. And I just received several hundred of them a few days ago. I'm going to be busy for some time to come.

Marty

I guess so!

As you have seen from this thread, I can get turned around on the W-F issues.

This web page from 1847usa.com has always been a good guide for me to sort things out when I get confused:

http://www.1847usa.com/washfrank/washfrankmain.htm

Dan

Good luck quigngt. Who knows what may turn up. I envy you the pleasure of going through all those WF's. Keep a sharp lookout for any of the rarities.