Mint/Cto

when looking in the scott catalog is a CTO valued at the used price or how do you determine the value of a CTO?

Hi Tina....


In almost all cases used stamps are valued higher than CTO's......in many cases much higher. To many collectors CTO's are considered just space fillers with almost no value.

When I was in the UK in September, I met a few dealers at local fairs who were selling FDC's for almost nothing, even modern GB and USA. They told me they could not get rid of them, even give them away ! And if you check on ebay, it's the same story.

Not sure what to do with mine !

Londonbus1

so were saying 1/4 of my collection is worthless?

I would like to add that it not all cases CTO's are worth less. If it is a country that does not issue wads of CTO's and it is prior to 1910, then the CTO might be worth more. Such an example is any CTO from the State of Victoria, Australia

so im curious as to why they even have them?

Tina - CTO's were mass produced by several countries, notably a lot of African and Eastern European countries during the time of the Soviet occupation. There were produced solely for the express purpose of selling to stamp collectors. It was realized by the countries that did this that there was a source of revenue in selling used postage stamps, as it was expensive to collect used mail they cancelled them on machines. In many instances the cancels look fake and in almost all instances the cancels are on the corners (so as not to mar the stamp too much). Quite a few countries did not even bother to remove the gum, and just printed the cancel directly on the unused stamp. Today it looks like overkill, but back in the day, when stamp collecting was the #1 hobby, there was always a demand from schoolboy's who could not afford to fill their stamp albums except by purchasing CTO's. Then of course folks like Minkus started stuffing world packets of cheap stamps with these, and now of course they are a curse.

An older example of CTO's are on the North Borneo and Labuan issues. Most of these have the signature barred oval CTO, making it worth one fifth of the regular circular CDS. They were not sent out by the government but by an individual who purchased all the unused stock of the stamp and had a field day selling his CTO versions of it.

Great info now I know why but it seems like a waste to me

Please excuse the stupid question, but does a FDC prepared with a commercial cache from ,say, the US, in the mid 1950s count as a CTO?

Countries wouldn't have to realize face value of the stamp sets if they canceled them and sold them to dealers. Otherwise, they'd have to get something near face value for the stamps or risk gumming up their own postal systems.

I've heard that Australian CTOs weren't sold at a discount off face value, and are supposed to have less of a stigma than a "regular" CTO for that reason. I have a couple Australian KGVs with cancels and full gum, and I assumed they were favor cancels.

Anyone?

Tina......


Your collection is not worthless......but CTO's in most cases are worth less than the same stamp actually postally used. Scott cat has notes about this in many countries.

"Worthless" and "worth less" are not the same.

Many collectors consider FDC's just fancy CTO's......and that true postal history is worth more than similar FDC's. CTO's & FDC's are things created just for collectors......postal history covers and used material are created by the general public simply using the postal system.

Things created for collectors are "arranged" or "manipulated" to be something "special".....anyone can make thousands of them.

Postal history is just a happenstance of doing business. Most covers are common items, to find something special truely is special as a singular item.


Even though I agree that FDC's are just fancy CTO's I do have some in my collection, but I search for ones that have higher face value stamps or that use odd rate stamps like many from the Americana series. Another type I like are those that use a complete booklet pane, especially airmail booklets.


As you learn about the differences of these things it is up to you to determine what types of things you want to spend money on. Buying CTO's does not make you less of a collector.....it just means we collect different material.

........I'm also sure that if I check my collection carefully I would find a fair number of CTO's.....but whenever possible, I prefer postally used.

If you like them, and they work for you in your collection, then they're definitely not worthless. As long as everyone understands the place of CTOs in the stamp galaxy, then what's the harm? (What I mean to say is that if someone is buying with an eye toward resale value, then the potential for diminished interest down the road becomes relevant.)

Someone was showing a self-created page at a club meeting a few months ago with an interesting treatment of very recent U.S. used issues. It took some thought, a bit of work on the page-creation end, and a ton of work to locate the stamps. A hit-and-run commenter walked by the table and said only, "those stamps are pretty much worthless."

Some people just don't get it...

Collin

Cjd - The Australian KGV CTO's are worth a lot more than the used. They were favor cancels, usually out of Melbourne, you will see them on the heads and they are quite collectible. What really is worth money are the Victoria CTO's, which are always Melbourne. There are a few Queensland CTO's and these are super collectible. To me there is no country in the world better to look at the cancels than Oz. Tasmanian cancels are collected big time, with most Oz collectors familiar with the RRRR's and what to look out for. For Victoria you have the Up trains and Down Trains, some of which are worth a lot, and a fortune on cover. For WA you have any postoffice outside Freemantle and Perth in the 19thC. And so it goes on. Fascinating country.

Hi folks......


On July 7, 1971 when the USPOD became the USPS postal officials decided that a first day cancel could be applied up to 30 days after first day. Since then it has been extended to 60 days. Because there is no difference between a cancel applied on the first day and one applied one the 60th day, no US cover since 7-1-71 can be considered a true FDC. Only a cover that has passed through the postal delivery system on the actual first day is an FDC.

Another thing I've noticed.........some sellers try to promote their FDC's as MINT items.....an absolutely ridiculous concept..........Things with cancels are not mint.