Is This What I Think It Is? (1860's, American)

This stamp was shown to me by someone who asked if I could give them some info on it.

I am not a stamp collector, but sort of a general specialist who knows a little bit about most things. I am also aware that there are variations unknown to the layman that can make two seemingly identical stamps very disparate in value.



I know what it looks like, but I need someone to verify it. I returned the envelope after scanning it but have held the envelope with the stamp attached in my hands. I'm sorry to be so coy with this, but I am trying NOT to leap to conclusions. I also realize that without seeing the stamp for themselves it would be hard to be definate.

Please, let me know what you think.

Does it have a grill?

If not then its a scott #63, if it has a grill its probably an #86 or #92.

Is that a blackjack to the left? I would love to see the whole cover. In many cases you need to see the whole package to get a better idea as to value.
Will

(Pause to exhale).

OK. SO no one is getting too excited so I am guessing it is not what I was thinking. Would the grill be easy to spot? I have tried and not had any success in spotting one. I am, of course, looking for a Z grill on the stamp.

The stamp next to it is a "Black Jack". And the whole thing was mailed in 1897.

I highly doubt it's a z-grill. That would be like finding a $10 million lottery ticket - it could happen, but the odds are against you. You can see if there's a stamp store or an upcoming stamp show in your area to find someone to give a better evaluation as such stamps can be hard to determine on cover. However, DO NOT remove from cover.
However you have a 1867 cover. No reason to smear the address - I'm sure they are dead. That is a nice cover and there is demand for such an item.
Will

Thank you for your advice. It is certainly appreciated. I smeared the address to protect the owner on the off chance the stamp was a z-grill. It is addressed to the owners relative. I have also been emailed stating that they would need to remove the stamp to prove authenticity. For the time being, I will suggest looking for a local expert to give an in person evaluation. And yes, I did not mean "1897", but rather "1867"!

Would not a detailed 1200dpi scan of the stamp in question,
at least indicate it had a grill?

Well, I have been told by a couple of people now the only sure way to check the grill is to remove the stamp. The stamp's owner isn't sure they want to go that far though.

If we did try to remove it, how would we do it? Is it something a layman can do; or is it better left to a professional?

Also, I would like to uload a higher res picture but there is a 100k limit. Any way around that, like a community picture pool or something?

Thanks for all the help so far though, we really apprciate it.

Hello, welcome.

You can scan and then crop til all you see is part of the stamp or different pics for different parts and while doing so you will have reduced the file size also.

I am not an expert, especially on US stamps, but it has seemed to me so far with most stamps of a ripe age, that to remove it from cover would be to devalue it. I would think, in my ignorance perhaps,, that a detailed enough scan would reveal quite a bit, to start with anyway.

Or, if all the cropping and such is not up your alley, there is photobucket or imageshack. Then you just post a link to the pic.

That is not necessarily true. Did they say the "must" or "may" have to remove the stamp. Have they physically examined the stamp/cover, or only looked at the scan? I would suggest considering a different expertizer/group if they claim "must" and have not physically examined the cover. It is possible to properly identify a grill on cover with the right equipment and if the stamp is in good condition with a strong grill.

A quick way to check to see if there is a grill is to hit it with a filtered UV light (philatelic/research grade preferable). You may not be able to ID the grill right away, but the UV does a decent job of showing up even the faintest grills. Other equipment would be necessary to accurately ID the exact grill type.

Whatever you do, DO NOT remove the stamp off cover by yourself. And again, I fully question any insistence that the stamp must be removed off cover unless they've physically examined the stamp -- and even then, I would get a 2nd expertizer opinion first.

Best wishes...

k

It's a very nice looking cover, but they put the stamps on the wrong side.

......and, someone has pencilled in "186" of the 1867

Is it commonplace to see a cork cancel, and CDS strikes,
on the same cover in US philately?
I would have thought sending and receiving marks would be
in differing positions.

Re: cork cancels and CDS strikes

Yes, on early US covers the stamps were not canceled with the CDS. The CDS was used by the post office to demonstrate timely delivery (despite the 73 years it took to deliver the cover to California in yesterday's news!) The cork cancel was used to deface the stamps. It wasn't until the 1880's when duplex cancels (CDS + killer) were used as a time savings measure.

Also, I don't think either of the CDS's are receiving marks.

Thanks 1847CT
nice to have that answered,
It always looked peculiar to me.
Hence we rarely see US stamps with cork cancels
having any other marks upon them.

However in the case of this cover, the clerk
has hit the LH stamp with the CDS.