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Formosa (?) Help Please

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Posted 08/26/2012   6:12 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add Partime to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I found these stamps in Grandma's Collection. I have been unable to
find in my various Scott Catalogs, having looked under China,
Republic of China, People's Republic of China, and Japan. Any help
determining whether they are actual stamps (not Cinderellas) and what
Scott number identification? There is a note from Grandma claiming
a date of 1888. Thanks.

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Posted 08/26/2012   6:34 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add nigelc to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Partime,

The top two are supposed to be a Chinese issue for Taiwan/Formosa in 1888 but the designs look very crude compared with the originals which were printed by Bardbury Wilkinson.

The bottom three are the "Black Flag Republic" issue of 1895 when the Taiwan rebelled against Japanese occupation - very interesting stamps, although I suspect they're forgeries. There are a number of forgeries including one called the "smiling tiger" and I'm afraid the more I look at these three the more they seem to be smiling.
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Nigel
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Posted 08/26/2012   6:39 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Partime to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Nigel. Based on my previous Chinese postings, I'm almost positive
they are forgeries. I was just wondering about the identification
since I couldn't find them anywhere.

I think Grandma had one of the largest collections of forgeries
possible ...
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Posted 08/26/2012   10:16 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Acknowledgement
Blair RCSD some years ago,
links may now not work



1895 - Black Flag Republic

In 1895, when the short-lived Republic of Formosa came into being it
established its own postal service. The following quote is from one
of
the Taipei Postal museum's story boards.

To meet the postal purposes as well as to raise funds to pay his
soldiers, General Liu established the Postal Administration of the
Formosa Republic on July 31, 1895, issuing postage stamps and
accepting mail articles from the public.

The stamps which adopted the scene known as "Flowing River
and Roaring Tiger" as the central design were usually referred to
as "single tiger" stamps.

Flowing River and Roaring Tiger
http://www.taiwan-guide.org/aa/repu...a-symbol.jpg

The green stamp used
http://usera.imagecave.com/smitimns...nownasia.jpg

The orange stamp used.
http://www.raster.it/stefano/a/stamps/oriental.jpg

The violet stamp used.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...mosa_Stamp.j
pg

On October 19, 1895 General Liu fled Taiwan for mainland
China; consequently the Postal Administration of the
Formosa Republic was closed after having operated for 81 days.

Blair




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Edited by rod222 - 08/26/2012 10:22 pm
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Posted 08/26/2012   11:07 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Partime to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks for the historical information. Still can't tell if they
are forgeries or not, but now I don't care. I usually love the history
behind the stamps as opposed to the value. Thanks again.
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Posted 08/26/2012   11:11 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Cjd to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Rod, I think the last link will work with a little touch up:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...sa_Stamp.jpg

The second one does seem to be down.
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Posted 08/26/2012   11:28 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Collin, a surprise really,
that post from Blair is about 6 years old.

I have the stamps Partime has, never checked mine either
they do look dodgy, especially the postmarks.
I also have a scan of an past eBay auction of these for $1000
They also look dodgy :)
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Posted 08/26/2012   11:40 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Cjd to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I don't have any, and I'm going to look for a set of the forgeries.

Partime, your grandma was in good company. In the late-nineteenth and early-twentieth centuries, there were a lot of collectors chasing relatively few genuine stamps for many of the early or oddball issues, and there was no shame in producing, or buying, reproductions to fill album holes (at least outside of the elite circles).

Some price lists would actually list the better and lesser quality reproductions separately, and price them accordingly.

I've been gone for awhile, so I'm not yet familiar with your collecting interests. Perhaps this is old news to you. Anyway, I agree with your sentiment that the story is a big part of the interest. Thanks for sharing them.
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Posted 08/27/2012   12:17 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Partime to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Collin. My interests vary greatly, but concentrate in US, France,
Canada, and now Great Britain (thanks to LondonBus1). The collection
I inherited from Grandma encompass everything and anything, and is
probably 30,000 stamps or greater. I post some of the more interesting
pieces every once in awhile, and this website has been very helpful
in identifying the valuable and castigating me on the worthless. (All
in jest, of course.) I think that I may take the known forgeries and
put them all in one place just to keep them straight!

My main goal is not in value, as I stated earlier. I particularly
enjoy receiving the most common stamps from my kids when they visit
new and exciting countries and bring me back some stamps for my
collection. Again, usually the most common, but special because of
the sentiment.

Of course, my long term plan is to give it right back to them in the
future, with notes as to how they were obtained ... just like the
notes in my Grandma's collection when I got it.

More postings to come in other areas. Have a great day.
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Posted 08/27/2012   02:53 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add tonymacg to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Here are scans of the first two Taiwan stamps, taken from the Chan catalogue ('Colour-illustrated Stamp Catalogue of China (1878-1949)):



I also compared the stamps on the second row with the illustrations and descriptions in Chan. I'm afraid the second row must also be forgeries. The originals were individually handstamped, and these stamps were obviously printed. The stamps in the second row also don't match any of the three genuine types.
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Posted 08/27/2012   03:20 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Very nice info Tony, thanks for sharing.
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Posted 01/17/2018   6:54 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add agb to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Just wonder if this 1895 - Black Flag Republic stamp is a forgery not sure
about the cancel?



I've search the web, but found no examples as the above?


Andrew
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Posted 01/17/2018   7:47 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add perf12 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
fake cancel is japanese....The faker did not know the difference.

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Posted 01/18/2018   01:28 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add agb to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks perf12. for your reply.

If the cancel is a fake, I can safely assume that the stamp must also be a fake?

Andrew
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Edited by agb - 01/18/2018 01:30 am
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Posted 01/18/2018   5:53 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add floortrader to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I have to disagree with everybody here {that comes as no surprise to all the regular members here } All the stamps shown above are FORMOSA stamps ,none are BLACK FLAG REPUBLIC . Let me put up the differences and get my Forgery collection out of storage .
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Posted 01/18/2018   6:54 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add littleriverphil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Let me put up the differences and get my Forgery collection out of storage


and YAY! I find forgeries and forgers fascinating.
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Edited by littleriverphil - 01/18/2018 6:55 pm
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