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1c 1851 Plate 1-Late Stamps

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Posted 11/27/2017   12:34 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add txstamp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Definitely an A relief.
I'd say its probably Plate 1-Early.
I would certainly start looking there.

I suspect that a high detail scan may be required, as often for this plate, there are small very fine vertical scratches in the margin that can be used for plating. Many are not in Neinken, but can be resolved from known stamps in one's possession, or often the 1c plating archive.
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Posted 11/27/2017   10:25 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jaxom100 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Looking at those marks, I went through the Doporto site (which does not have all the stamps of plate one early) and came up with one stamp that has all of the marks indicated but has only one plating mark that this one does not seem to have. This is Position 13L1E. What do you guys think?

Here are a couple closeups:




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Posted 11/28/2017   1:14 pm  Show Profile Check sinclair2010's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add sinclair2010 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I would have said check Plate 2 first just because it doesn't look like a Plate 1E stamp to me. It is more important to realize that it is quite possible to simply turn the stamp over and rule out an 1851 or '52 printing by the paper alone. Just a little known fact...
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Posted 11/28/2017   2:15 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add txstamp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Plate 2 is certainly a possibility.
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Posted 11/28/2017   3:11 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jaxom100 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
What is the paper difference and how do you tell them apart?
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Posted 11/28/2017   6:49 pm  Show Profile Check sinclair2010's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add sinclair2010 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
You can't do it with all of them but somewhere in the ca. 1855-56 time period, Toppan Carpenter used a paper that looks much different than what had previously been used. It's appearance is very similar to the soft papers used on the large banknotes. That is to say that you can see an obvious mesh pattern in the stamp paper. When observed, it is diagnostic of a printing that could not have occured in 1851 or '52. Like many of the things that I study or collect, I am still gathering data so can only give very general date ranges.
Shown below is an example of a 3c 1851 stamp from an 1856 printing.


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Posted 11/28/2017   10:39 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rgstamp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
This stamp has a "dingle" (I think). That should help?

Addendum: prob just signifies A relief, which is already known
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Edited by rgstamp - 11/28/2017 10:53 pm
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Posted 11/29/2017   12:04 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rgstamp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
"Short" lower right plume may help narrow down, as well as significant plate mark just to right of ornament R.

If plate 2, perhaps 54L2 but I don't have example to compare, as not on Doporto website
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Posted 11/29/2017   06:58 am  Show Profile Check sinclair2010's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add sinclair2010 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Here's your test my friends...

Where do you start on this one without looking at anything other than the back of the stamp? Get it right and you are that much closer to a degree in higher philatelic learning

https://www.ebay.com/itm/U-S-7-Very....m1438.l2649

Item #142597252521
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Posted 11/29/2017   08:25 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add dudley to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Sealed pinhole on Ben's nose?
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Posted 11/29/2017   12:49 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jaxom100 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
All I can tell from my phone is that it is thin paper.
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Posted 11/29/2017   5:13 pm  Show Profile Check sinclair2010's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add sinclair2010 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Unfortunately our two intrepid responders have both failed Sorry.

Shown below is an image of the back of the stamp. It is a Type II stamp. Imperf Type II stamps like this one can come from either Plate 1E, 2, or 3. I am saying that by only looking at the back of the stamp I can tell that it is most likely a Plate 2 stamp with the very small chance of it coming from Plate 3. There is NO chance that it is a Plate 1E stamp.

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Posted 11/29/2017   5:55 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rgstamp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Sinclair:

Are you referring to the color of the paper? Seems more yellow brown, not white?

Perhaps paper quality looks soft porous, hard to tell?
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Posted 11/29/2017   7:02 pm  Show Profile Check sinclair2010's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add sinclair2010 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It's the pattern in the paper imparted by the wire of the paper machine that I am talking about.
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Posted 11/29/2017   8:28 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jaxom100 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Did you mean that it could not be a Plate 1L not 1E?
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