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Italy Stamp Engravers  
 

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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
4387 Posts
Posted 08/10/2018   10:00 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lithograving to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
As far as I know the Italian rotocalco translates
as gravure,rotogravure, photogravure, heliogravure which are all relief
printing but are definitely not line engraving, recess engraving, steel engraving,intaglio,Taille-douce or Calcography.

Florian explains it all perfectly in his post above.

That excellent article by Glenn Morgan
https://www.ohiogt.com/doc/articles...ts%201-3.pdf which KuoLC5310 has
provided a link to is all about gravure/photogravure not recess engraving.

This is what Glenn writes at the beginning of the article.


Quote:
To set the scene it is important to first
explain the basics of gravure (known
in America as 'rotogravure', in France
as 'héliogravure' and in Germany as
'rastertiefdruck'). At one time, collectors
only encountered stamps that employed
a photographic process in manufacturing
the cylinders, hence the frequently
encountered term 'photogravure',
but with the advent of electronically engraved
cylinders there was a need to differentiate,
as photography increasingly ceased to play
a part in the stamp cylinder manufacturing
process from the early 1990s.


I believe that these recent Italian engraved stamps
are still done by engravers but with aid of computers.
The transfer from the die to the plate is also computerized.
But they are still engraved which is a plus.

I agree 100% with bookbndrbob when he writes

Quote:
I guess the cold, robotic look is intentional.


I would add that they look lifeless and why are they predominantly
printed in black?
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Edited by lithograving - 08/11/2018 1:28 pm
Pillar Of The Community
Canada
4387 Posts
Posted 08/11/2018   1:02 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lithograving to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Here are some "really" engraved Italian stamps.

Italy 1959 Scott 771
Statue of Lord Byron

Engraver: Vittorio Nicastro



Italy 1960 Scott 797
Century of Southern Italian liberation by Garibaldi.

Engraver : Egidio Vangelli



Italy 1964 Scott 893
150th Anniversary death of Giambattista Bodoni
printer & type setter.

Engraver : Egidio Vangelli

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Pillar Of The Community
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4387 Posts
Posted 08/11/2018   1:19 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lithograving to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Italy 1969 Scott 1006
Stamp Day

Enraver : Tullio Mele



Italy 1970 Scott 1020
Loggia of St Mark, Venice

Engraver: Vittorio Nicastro



Italy 1973 Scott 1105
Manzoni (1785-1873), novelist and poet

Engraver : Eros Donnini



Italy 1975 Scott 1183
500th Birth Anniversary of Michelangelo Buonarroti (1475-1564)

Engraver : Alceo Quieti

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Pillar Of The Community
United States
9782 Posts
Posted 08/11/2018   6:22 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add KuoLC5310 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Christmas
December 13, 1977
Adoration of the Shepherds by Pietro Tiesta (1611-1650)
Engraver Eros Donnini

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Edited by KuoLC5310 - 08/13/2018 1:07 pm
Pillar Of The Community
United States
9782 Posts
Posted 08/12/2018   10:07 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add KuoLC5310 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Italian Artists- Giacomo Serpotta
July 26, 1976
Baroque female stucco statue Virtue of Courage
Engraver R. di Giuseppe

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Pillar Of The Community
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1702 Posts
Posted 08/12/2018   11:07 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add bookbndrbob to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The last stamp, from 1976, is puzzling. It appears that the very mechanical-looking intaglio printing of stamps in Italy has been going on for quite some time.

If the engraving work is not going to use the qualities one can achieve with the intaglio process, why not just print the stamp by offset?

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Pillar Of The Community
United States
9782 Posts
Posted 08/12/2018   12:03 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add KuoLC5310 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Italian Artists- Tiziano Vecellio
July 26, 1976
Painting Flora
Engraver Francesco Tulli

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Pillar Of The Community
United States
9782 Posts
Posted 08/12/2018   3:50 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add KuoLC5310 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Italian Artists - Antonello da Messina
February 15, 1979
Painting The Annunciation
Italian Artists- Gian Lorenzo Bernini
November 20, 1980
Apollo and Daphne, a life-size Baroque marble sculpture
Engraver Tullio Mele



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Edited by KuoLC5310 - 08/24/2018 1:59 pm
Pillar Of The Community
United States
9782 Posts
Posted 08/12/2018   11:00 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add KuoLC5310 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Italian Artists- Amedeo Modigliani
January 25, 1984
Painting Paul Guillaume (1916)
Engraver Valeiro Puliti

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Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
654 Posts
Posted 08/13/2018   05:28 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Galeoptix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It is obvious that from a certain moment in time most if not all "recess printed" stamps were NOT engraved by a person using the old traditonal technique but were simply reproduced from a drawing made either mechanically or partly by hand.

A real engraving takes TOO much time and will cost TOO much....

However, from the early 1950-ies Joh. Enschedé & Sons, of Haarlem, the Netherlands were reproducing either drawn designs or copies of old engravings into SCREENED and ETCHED printing plates photomechanically to be used on their banknote printing recess presses. Mainly Luxemburg stamps!
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Edited by Galeoptix - 08/13/2018 05:31 am
Pillar Of The Community
Czech Republic
552 Posts
Posted 08/13/2018   06:27 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add florian to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
bookbndrbob - Re your post http://goscf.com/t/63119#547512
Quote: ... The "Artistic and Cultural Heritage" stamps are printed by rotogravure.

The Italian term "calcografia" can be rather confusing to an English speaker. The English equivalent of chalcography is "copper plate engraving & printing".

James points out in his post http://goscf.com/t/16798:
"P.s. Direct Hand Engraving: Printing by the most crude & simple form of line engraving, termed "Chalcography," was used (i.e. Mauritius 1847 Issue). ... "

From http://wiki.ibolli.it/wiki/index.ph...he_di_stampa follows that some of the "Artistic and Cultural Heritage" stamps are printed in either rotogravure or line engraving.

The word "grooves" in (quote) So, "(the) grooves (are) no longer engraved manually but obtained with an automated process."... had better read "recesses" to make sense and avoid any suggestion of line engraved printing.

I have known the Italian terms calcografia and rotocalco in use ever since I started reading Italian philatelic press in the late 1950's and their usage has never changed even through the term calcografia now covers both the hand-engraved stamps and the computer-engraved ones.
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Edited by florian - 08/13/2018 10:12 am
Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
654 Posts
Posted 08/13/2018   09:42 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Galeoptix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Florian,


Quote:
http://wiki.ibolli.it/wiki/index.ph...he_di_stampa
says on the difference between calcografia and rotocalco.


The explanation is WRONG!

In Calcografia (or Recess) the ink is thick and the ink has to be forced under pressure to get it out of the "recesses" this requires a very specificly made printing press, much different from the ones used in Rotocalco (or photogravure) the ink is very fluent and does NOT require any pressure to get it out of the "recesses" and also the overflow of ink should be wiped off the cylinder before the ink reaches the paper.

How the "recesses" look like and how they were made is not important to tell us whether Calcografia or Rotocalco had been used!

The stamps we were shown here are ALL in Calcografia, not one in Rotocalco!

PS

the post-1980 stamps also show Offset-Litho at the background ;)
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Edited by Galeoptix - 08/13/2018 09:47 am
Pillar Of The Community
Czech Republic
552 Posts
Posted 08/13/2018   10:55 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add florian to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Galeoptyx - Rein, the explanation in Italian is too simplified to cover the finer points on ink viscosity, etc. as you point out, and is inadequately machine-translated (e.g. l'inchiostro ... lasciando un caratteristico rilievo ..., che e ben visibile a luce radente ...
= the ink ... leaving a characteristic relief ..., which is clearly visible in oblique light. ..., not in grazing light as machine-translated)
but it is not entirely wrong.

I very much appreciated your post http://goscf.com/t/9106&whichpage=112#273308 on the 1956 Netherlands Rembrandt issue and the various Luxembourg ones printed in the same style.

I was wondering if you could give an opinion on the 2009 Biblioteca Pinacoteca Accademia Ambrosiana di Milano issue
( http://www.ibolli.it/php/em-italia-15132.php
http://wnsstamps.post/stamps/2009/IT/IT047.09.jpg ) provided you can find a copy.
The stamp is described in I Bolli as printed in rotocalco (gravure) and the left-hand part of the vignette's engraving as well as all the inscriptions (with slightly shaded lettering, which is difficult to notice with the naked eye) around both parts of the vignette do look rather peculiar (obviously computer-engraved) and very different from the right-hand one (probably hand-engraved).

Note the 2003 Donne nell'Arte definives, where the lower values 0,01€, ... are printed in rotocalco (gravure http://www.ibolli.it/php/em-italia-...20Canova.php ) and visibly screened and etched while the higher ones from 0,41€ are printed in calcografia (line engraving http://www.ibolli.it/php/em-italia-...20Sanzio.php ) and appear hand-engraved.

Groetjes,

Florián
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Edited by florian - 08/14/2018 04:01 am
Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
654 Posts
Posted 08/13/2018   5:26 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Galeoptix to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Florian,

I am still in Poland - near the Slowak border - in Bia#322;ka Tatrza#324;ska! Back in the Netherlands on August 27.

pozdrawiam, Rein
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
9782 Posts
Posted 08/13/2018   7:15 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add KuoLC5310 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Italian Artists - Mario Sironi
June 15, 1985
Painting La civiltà del lavoro
Italian Artists - Felice Casorati
October 11, 1986
Painting Daphne Pavarolo
Engraver Francesco Tulli


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Edited by KuoLC5310 - 08/19/2018 10:59 am
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