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Could this Be the 1858 Romania #1 ?????

 
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Australia
24983 Posts
Posted 01/09/2019   9:29 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Can you tell me how would I figure out the plate position on a stamp like this.


Sewall,
no such thing in this case, there was only one die, clamped in place, and hand printed one stamp at a time, the paper moved, after each impression made.
Hope that helps.

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United States
68 Posts
Posted 01/09/2019   9:59 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add SewallH to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
tgswanner's stamp is poorly printed which makes it more difficult from an analysis standpoint. The problem with his stamp is the "K". The "K" is a nightmare. Bad proportions and the angle of the letter is incorrect. The broken right hand horn is also a bad sign. Based on the cancellations on the other #1 stamps, tgswanner's stamp cancellation does not look correct. Thanks to him for posting it. It is really important to have this type of open exchange of ideas, comments, opinions, etc.

floortrader, I love your forgery collection. Very cool. But you only have one 27p stamp (the Moldavia #1). You need to add some of the other forgeries!!!! LOL.

It is very cool to have so many expert opinions and stamp images, whether real or forgeries. This is how a guy like me really learns. Excellent stuff.
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68 Posts
Posted 01/09/2019   10:02 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add SewallH to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The Moldavian "Bulls Head" Classics
Moldavia was situated in the Balkans near to the Black Sea. Under the Treaty of Paris of 1856 Moldavia was granted the right to self-govern. In late 1857 the government authorised postal stamps to be issued. Only a very short period of time elapsed before Moldavia, in 1859 became a part of the Principality of Romania. A nation steeped in tradition with a history of conquest, political and economic upheaval, foreign invasion and military occupation dating back to the time of the Roman Empire.

The 1858 "Moldavian Bulls" have long been treasured and highly regarded stamps, often mentioned in the same breath as the Mauritius "Post Office" classics they have always been of significant interest to collectors with many of philately's most famous personalities seeking to own them with many now housed in permanent museum collections.

So famous were these elusive stamps that a consignment was allegedly offered to the Mexican government as financial collateral to secure a loan; whilst many have simply vanished into the mists of time others were seized by the Russian army at the end of World War II whilst a significant group was stolen en-route to an auction house in London.

Continuing interest is maintained by the very short period for which they were in use (July to November 1858) and the extremely low numbers printed (a total of approximately 11,750 of all denominations were sold, with another 12,300 remaining unsold in an era before stamp collectors and officially destroyed.) An estimate suggests that maybe just 800 or so remain.

This first issue was hand printed on coloured, horizontally laid gummed paper, in imperforate sheets of 32 stamps ( 4 rows of 8 stamps) by the security printers Atelia Timbruli in Jassy, the capital of Moldavia and later Romania, the company responsible for printing Moldavia's official stationery. An exception was the 81 Parale that was printed on bluish wove paper. All paper used contained natural irregularities that should never be confused with damage. There were four values, 27, 54, 81 and 108 Parale. The individual dies were hand engraved by a local engraver called Dettmer. They are all slightly different and have barely noticeable, yet identifiable variations that are the natural result of this type of engraving process. The original plates can now to be seen at the Romanian Postal Museum in Bucharest.

The resultant artistic image lingers in the mind. There is a circular frame within which at the top are the words in Cyrillic script "Porto Scrisori". Translated this means "Letter" (Scrisori) -"tariff must be paid by the addressee" (Porto). An error, as the correct word is "Franco" meaning that the "tariff is paid by the sender". At the bottom is an image of a post horn attached to which is a small circle showing the value. Between the two is the iconic "Auroch" or "Bulls Head" with a five pointed star between the two horns, from which the stamps take their name. The Auroch are an extinct breed of large wild cattle that inhabited large parts of Europe. They can be seen in pre-historic cave drawings at Lascaux in France. To a modern eye the illustration on the stamps may remind a US basketball fan of the team emblem of the famous "Chicago Bulls" though there is no link and the Club itself was founded as recently as 1966!

The example offered for sale shows a partial circular cancellation in greenish blue for Galatz (Galati), a town situated on the left bank of the River Danube. Galati is still part of Romania with a population of some 330,000 and is approximately 150 miles from Bucharest. It was one of only 12 town cancels in Moldavia that have been recorded relating to the 1858 issue. This stamp is 1 of only 14 recorded bearing the Galatz cancellation.

In 1991, following the collapse of the Soviet Union, Moldova as named, became a Republic and now continues to maintain close links and a border with Romania. Moldova issued a set of stamps a year later to celebrate the first anniversary of independence. These depict the Coat of Arms of the country and, like earlier issues, show an image of the famous "Bulls Head", which is the national symbol of both Moldavia and Moldova
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Posted 01/09/2019   10:08 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add SewallH to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Here is an example of a real Moldavia #1 from Sandafayre auction house.

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United States
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Posted 01/09/2019   10:18 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add SewallH to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Romanian Stamps

Definitives of 1858-1864

The first Romanian stamps were the product of two principalities. The Principality of Moldavia issued its first stamps, the famous "auroch or bull head" designs, in 1858. The Principality of Moldavia-Wallachia, which would soon become the Principality of Romania, issued stamps between 1862 and 1864.

Most of the images used on this page are of certified examples of the stamps that have been offered in the past by major public auction houses. In some cases, they have been cropped and resized to make them a uniform display size.





The four Romanian stamps shown above were issued in the Principality of Moldavia between July and October of 1858. These were the first postage stamps issued by any Southeastern European state.

The design features the Arms of Moldavia, with that being a "auroch or bull head, with a star above". The denomination is contained within a post horn. The inscription reads #1055;#1054;#1056;#1058;#1054; #1057;#1050;#1056;#1048;#1057;#1054;#1056;#1048; (PORTO SCRISOREI), Romanian Cyrillic for "Postage to be paid by the recipient". This inscription is actually a mistake. The inscription should have read FRANCO in Cyrillic letters instead of PORTO in Cyrillic letters, which would have changed the meaning to "Postage to be paid by the sender". The payment of postage obviously happened when the stamp was affixed to the letter envelope by the sender. These new stamps were only valid for postal use within the Principality of Moldavia.

The design of these stamps, utilizing an auroch and a star, was also a political statement against the Ottoman Empire, which actually ruled over the principality during this time.

These denominations were hand-stamped from a single die, one at a time, in black or blue ink onto papers of various colors. They were issued in sheets of 32 stamps, arranged in four rows of eight stamps, which were usually badly aligned.

The catalog attributes of these stamps are as follows:


27 Pa. (1858 - Laid Paper - Sc. #1) - Black on Rose tinted paper.
54 Pa. (1858 - Laid Paper - Sc. #2) - Blue on Greenish Paper.
108 Pa. (1858 - Laid Paper - Sc. #3) - Blue on Light Rose paper.

81 Pa. (1858 - Wove Paper - Sc. #4) - Blue on Pale Bluish paper.

The census figures for these stamps, as of 1994, are as follows:


27 Pa. - Printed: 6,016 - Sold: 3,691. There are 16 mint examples and 160 used examples in known collections.
54 Pa. - Printed: 10,016 - Sold: 4,772. There are 24 mint examples and 238 used examples in known collections.
108 Pa. - Printed: 6,016 - Sold: 2,574. There are 18 mint examples and 169 used examples in known collections.

81 Pa. - Printed: 2,016 - Sold: 709. There are 25 mint examples and 37 used examples in known collections.

The four Romanian stamps shown above are ranked among the World's greatest philatelic rarities. The combined 2018 Scott Catalog value of these stamps, in used condition, is US $106,000.00. These stamps are seldom offered for sale in the philatelic market place. When they are available, they are usually sold through major public auction houses, where the competition for them is tremendous.

The Scott catalog indicates that cut-to-shape examples of these stamps are worth about 25% of the listed prices. In that case, the four stamps would STILL have a combined catalog value of US $26,500.00. Strangely enough, I have never spotted an image of an authentic cut-to-shape example of any of these stamps on the internet.

These four stamps have been extensively forged. Any examples offered for sale, that are not properly authenticated or certified, should be assumed to be possible forgeries, unless their status can be proved otherwise.
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Posted 01/09/2019   10:58 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add floortrader to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
"you need to add some of the other forgeries" Thanks for the advice any other advice that can help me expand my collection .
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United States
68 Posts
Posted 01/10/2019   12:40 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add SewallH to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
floortrader, are you interested in my #1 27p stamp. I have no clue what it is worth. I would not take $3 for it. I could probably get $5-10 for it on eBay without much trouble. I do not see these stamps come up for sale very often. I saw only one for sale for $25, and that was a simple photocopy. I will probably sell my stamp. Question is whether I can get it more properly identified. If it is a post office authorized reprint, I still have no clue what it is worth. I would think that official reprints are valuable.

What do you think?
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France, Metropolitan
1650 Posts
Posted 01/10/2019   08:15 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add perf12 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The tgswanner stamp (Comparitive with recorded Genuine)


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Edited by perf12 - 01/10/2019 08:19 am
Valued Member
United States
100 Posts
Posted 01/10/2019   10:27 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add tgswanner to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Wow...nice comparison perf12. I notice the Scott Catalog describes this as being on rose paper. Can it be on different colors other than rose? The original doesn't look very rosy to me. This forum is great...very informative and appreciated.
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Pillar Of The Community
France, Metropolitan
1650 Posts
Posted 01/11/2019   10:39 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add perf12 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The 27 paral should have a diameter of 19.5 mm.The paper is tinted rose; some were lighter than others in tint.Some were irregular in tint with whiter areas,some just white.
Is the paper in your stamp ribbed? Smooth ? Thick?
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United States
100 Posts
Posted 01/11/2019   12:06 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add tgswanner to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Perf12, I can confirm the 19.5. The paper, as best I can tell, is not ribbed, and I would call it thinner as compared to normal stamp paper but I don't have a gauge to measure. I turned the stamp over and backlit so you could get an idea. There is also a DD mark on the reverse...any idea who DD is?




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France, Metropolitan
1650 Posts
Posted 01/11/2019   12:27 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add perf12 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Your 1st 3 pics show 3 different colors.Which is the closest to the original? ( "D" is Dracula)?
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United States
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Posted 01/11/2019   12:34 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add tgswanner to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
That is what lighting will do you for you! Flash (pic 1), versus regular light (pic 2) and LED's (pic 3). Was trying different effects to best get details of the paper. Pic 2 is closer to actual color. AH! D for Dracula..we ARE in Romania!
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France, Metropolitan
1650 Posts
Posted 01/11/2019   1:58 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add perf12 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The cancel is "TEKUTSCH"- "MOLDOVA". The Tekutsch is considered a rarer locality.
The numeral "8" you see in the cancel is inverted.The numeral "3"has that particular form.These are frequent in genuine cancels.
On the bottom we can see the ending VA of MOLDOVA.The V is a bit distorted and looks like
an O but I think it's a just the inking.After magnification the cancel is on the stamp.
That particular blue color of the cancel seems a match with genuine examples.
The paper looks like laid paper with a light tint of rose.It does not show up in the
pic but it's tinted.
Now the thickness of the paper is the most important.No one knows exactly the total
number of paper types used.The most frequent is the horizontaly laid paper then the laid
paper coming 2nd.They are a bit thick. The reprints are on laid thinner paper.
It could be a printing with another paper type used because of a shortage or simply in
haste.. (Frankly ;I would not be surprised if your stamp is a genuine example).

A TEKUTSCH cancel from an auction:
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Pillar Of The Community
France, Metropolitan
1650 Posts
Posted 01/11/2019   2:31 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add perf12 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Could you take a pic of the stamp on an envelope?.Take 1 pic from above the another at a slight angle.No flash.Just natural light.Something like this:


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