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Western Australia Watermarks

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 11 / Views: 284Next Topic  
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Posted 04/09/2020   1:47 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add EMaxim to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
My admittedly older copy of Gibbons says that between 1864 and 1882 both the Crown CC and Crown CA watermarks are normally sideways and, viewed from the back, show crown to the left of the two letters beneath, with variants showing crown to the right.

I'm new to this collecting area and am wondering what these watermarks look like. How far to the left or right? I've searched the web and this site for an image: no luck. Can anyone help?
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Posted 04/09/2020   3:55 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Eric,
Just take your normal Watermark impression (as seen from the back)
Then rotate it 90 degrees to the left or right.
That's what is meant by the advice. The Watermark remains identical at all times, it is just the paper was put through the print stage in differing orientations.

In this image, imagine the cross on top of the crown, on your stamps,
pointing to the left or the right.
Hope this makes sense to you.
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Edited by rod222 - 04/09/2020 4:02 pm
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Posted 04/09/2020   4:35 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add EMaxim to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks, Rod. Perfect sense, though only after my wife helped me grasp your explanation. (She's a bit sharper in these things.) I had imagined an upright crown with the letters offset somehow, i.e., a quite different watermark altogether.

Now, I assume that one starts with the design right-side up. The sideways watermark will then show the crown either to the left or to the right of the letters. Holding the stamp upside down would give an incorrect result. Have I got it?

Eric (PS Hope you're doing well.)
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Posted 04/09/2020   5:07 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Yes well thanks Eric,
best wishes to you and your partner.

Perhaps a "Mud Map" shall suffice........


....and maybe to confuse things
Your Stanley Gibbons should offer a generalisations for all formats of orientation.
trust this helps
"Upside down" can occur, if the paper is inserted 180 degrees, see "Inverted"
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Edited by rod222 - 04/09/2020 5:11 pm
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Posted 04/09/2020   5:24 pm  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Although for US watermarks, this tool will give you a better idea of the possible ordinations
http://stampsmarter.com/learning/Ma...ermarks.html (click on lower right button named 'Popup Location Tool')
Don
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Posted 04/09/2020   5:26 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Nice link there, Don.

Eric,
a little story.
This is the stamp paper just made, still damp, and has gone though a pressing under the "dandy roll" , a cylinder, that presses the watermark into the damp paper.

When dry the blank paper looks like this.
(imagine then, when the stamp is printed on the paper, you will get a watermark in each individual stamp printed, in correct orientation.


Now, Imagine Martha the printer, happens to feed the paper in the printer
turned at 90 degrees, you can see how the watermark is then "pointing left"
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Edited by rod222 - 04/09/2020 5:29 pm
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Posted 04/09/2020   6:53 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add EMaxim to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Don, that pop-up location tool is fabulous. If only we had the same for every country.

And Rod, I find this note in Gibbons: "The stamp printers in the various Australian colonies paid little attention to the position of the watermark in the sheets they produced, so that some entire printings had the watermark inverted, some 50% upright and 50% inverted, while on others the inverted watermarks were restricted to odd sheets. In such circumstances it is impossible to provide adequate prices for such items, so only those inverted watermarks occurring on stamps printed in Great Britain are included in the following listings."

For the Western Australian stamps that concern me (1864-85), Gibbons does list variants such as "watermark to the right," "watermark inverted," "watermark reversed." And these stamps were "recess D.L.R. from P.B. plates," referring to De La Rue and Perkins, Bacon. Does that mean that these stamps were printed in Britain?

Eric
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Posted 04/09/2020   10:14 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Does that mean that these stamps were printed in Britain?


Hi Eric,
tough question, plates were sent out to Australia, others printed in England.
If you can offer me the Scott or Stanley Gibbons number of your stamp in question, I can give you Chapter and Verse.

Update: Yes, printed in England, I'll post some further information later.


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Edited by rod222 - 04/09/2020 10:33 pm
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Posted 04/09/2020   11:32 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Eric,
If you want any info on a particular stamp, just holler.

DLR Printings from Perkins Bacon Plates
Watermarks
Western Australia
The Stamps and Postal History
The West Australian Study Group 1979
ISBN 959647600
pp 72

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Edited by rod222 - 04/09/2020 11:34 pm
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Posted 04/09/2020   11:42 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Mogens Juhl
1992
ISBN 0959375244
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Posted 04/10/2020   10:59 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add EMaxim to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Rod, you truly are a Bedrock of the Community, which has added so much to my understanding and enjoyment of the hobby. The Study Group's explanation, and especially that of Juhl, are terrific. I wonder now that I couldn't understand what Gibbons meant, but then Gibbons' brief note wasn't nearly so clear.

I love the designs of the Australian colonies, and particularly the swans of Western Australia. I've got only a few so far and now realize that, because of this watermark question, what I'd thought were duplicates may well not be. Glad also to have learned that the image is a poetic evocation of the region's major river. Looking forward to getting more examples.

And thanks again for all you do.
Eric
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Edited by EMaxim - 04/10/2020 11:06 am
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Posted 04/10/2020   1:13 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Mighty fine words there Eric, Thank you.

Watch those duplicates !
the next discipline we may be able to hook you to, is POSTMARKS
They can be a good source of interest and value.
I am fortunate to have a colleague, in the next town over whom shares
a similar collection as mine, so it is great fun.

If you need a Postmark ID for West Aust, just holler.

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