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General Color Reference Ww/Us Stamps?

 
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Posted 12/19/2020   12:51 pm  Show Profile Check knick1959's eBay Listings Bookmark this topic Add knick1959 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I searched, I did. And I found info, although almost all of it was about US colors and specific series.

What do people use for determining color, in general? Sending each stamp off to be certified isn't practical for many of these and that isn't attractive. It would be nice is like, in the coin world, you could actually see and browse certified coins. Does that exist?

In searching, I found reference to a Pantone color guide. Expensive new but perhaps that is the price for correctness. But do people find using these productive? Or is there something better?

I understand the issue with paper and ink and age and exposure to light/the elements. I'd just prefer SOMETHING that might show the difference between yellow-brown, brown-yellow and others. Examples off the top of my head and not a current real question.

TIA
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Posted 12/19/2020   3:39 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add chasa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
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Posted 12/19/2020   4:07 pm  Show Profile Check knick1959's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add knick1959 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks. I tried it but as I figured, low-value non-US stamps are likely not certified. I will keep this page in my bookmarks and try it again. But this likely isn't the answer for a general non-US reference.

In my recent case as outlined in a remote post I made today in the "Album Pages on CD" thread, I was specifically looking for images of Falkland Islands #9 and #10 to identify the stamp at-hand. Neither of these show up in that database.

I do collect US too so I'll try it next time I have a question there.
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Posted 12/19/2020   4:09 pm  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Colors are subjective perceptions largely influenced by ambient lighting; yet virtually no philatelic color references mention or define ambient lighting conditions. Additionally, stamp colors AND the color references themselves are ephemeral over time. Add to this the fact that there is no color naming standard or consistency in the hobby over the decades and you get confusion and introduce a degree of uselessness in stamp color analysis for anyone other than a person who is willing to dedicate their lifetime to study.
Don
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Posted 12/19/2020   4:32 pm  Show Profile Check GeoffHa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add GeoffHa to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
There are philatelic colour guides - Gibbons produces, or used to produce one. But they don't really map onto catalogues. Often, catalogued shades will be named to enable identifcation between two shades, but there's not necessarily a read-across to a standard or even to the remainder of the catalogue. And us your shade really the oale blue, or has it just faded? Frankly, there are some elements of stamp collecting that I find too painful to pursue. Paper types and detailed ranges of shades are among them.
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Posted 12/19/2020   4:43 pm  Show Profile Check knick1959's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add knick1959 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Ok, thanks guys. I don't care to become a color detective either, but as I've been stuck a couple of times on the question of "which one is it?", I wanted to ask.

I'll keep struggling with these questions as they come up and work on some type of online reference system to help. As much as one can. I found it odd, tho, that the #9 version of the stamp I was looking at ... the more expensive version ... was found often while the cheaper #10 (and assumed more common) not. I tend to default to mine likely being the lower-valued one, but sellers? Well, my default was to call mine a #9 as I saw no yellow in the green. Always prepared to be corrected in the future!
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Posted 12/19/2020   7:00 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Germania to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Collecting different colors (or more accurately, shades/tints/tones) is easy. Trying to match them up with a catalog number or description is where it gets difficult.

If you collect German stamps Michel publishes a color guide and the color descriptions match the catalog. But this is only slightly helpful at best. That's because the ink and paper used to print the color guide are not the same as used to print the stamps.

For offset or typographed stamps you could scan the stamps and then use an app (e.g., a Mac has Digital Color Meter in the Applications folder) to get RGB values. But you would need to determine your own boundaries for where one shade ends and another begins. And different scanners may produce different RGB values. And for engraved stamps the difficulty in determining color is even greater as the color is generally not even (because it is engraved).

For me, if a stamp has a different shade from ones I already have in my collection, I add it. Whether or not it could be cataloged with a specific sub-number is not important to me.
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Posted 12/20/2020   06:36 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Coastwatcher to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
As has been stated, colors appear differently on different types of paper. The closest guide that you are likely to find of actual stamp colors on stamp paper is the Stanley Gibbons Colour Guide for Stamp Collectors of the early 1920s. SG contracted with Perkins, Bacon & Company, a major supplier of postage stamps at the time, to print example stamps in various colors that were then put into a folder, which was roughly 5 1/2 by 8 1/2 inches when folded. This guide is, of course, best used for stamps of that era. These can sometimes be found on online auctions, but they aren't cheap.



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Edited by Coastwatcher - 12/20/2020 06:40 am
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Posted 12/20/2020   11:33 am  Show Profile Check knick1959's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add knick1959 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
As has been stated, colors appear differently on different types of paper. The closest guide that you are likely to find of actual stamp colors on stamp paper is the Stanley Gibbons Colour Guide for Stamp Collectors of the early 1920s. SG contracted with Perkins, Bacon & Company, a major supplier of postage stamps at the time, to print example stamps in various colors that were then put into a folder, which was roughly 5 1/2 by 8 1/2 inches when folded. This guide is, of course, best used for stamps of that era. These can sometimes be found on online auctions, but they aren't cheap.


Thanks for this. I see that these do become available from time to time. There is also a newer reference from SG that seems to be chips rather than stamp images. I will work to obtain one of each. While they may not be able to answer all questions of color definitively, they certainly would help as references when mentally debating.

Already I see that yellow-green isn't as far off from plain-jane green as I first imagined. I still aim to find both stamps in question next to each other in a single image. But I think these references would be good to have on hand.

Thanks again!
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Posted 12/20/2020   12:07 pm  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Color references have a 'shelf life' of a few years; Pantone recommends replacing them every few years. Like old stamps, there is no telling what the environmental conditions they have been exposed to over the decades. I would find little confidence in either matching or not matching to an old color guide.

Typically we are not simply trying to determine if a stamp is blue or green, we are trying to decide between some very subtle hue differences. This is why not having ambient lighting defined is so important, it is why it is critical to have accurate references. Catalog publishers should have never started issuing catalog numbers based solely upon subjective color decisions.

And shade deltas, (shade meaning a hue with black added) are likely to be based upon the application of ink, the heavily the application of an ink on white paper the darker the shade. So the ink formula can be exactly the same, or stamps can be from the from the same sheet, and the application of ink can make some of stamps appear to be a different shade.
Don
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