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Variable Value / Atm/Frama Stamps-Spain, Germany, Portugal, Ireland, Thailand, Costa Rica-Any Value?

 
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Valued Member
United States
85 Posts
Posted 06/30/2021   12:47 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add bmbmbm to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Hi,

I don't know very much about these stamps. I came across them in a stamp lot I was going through, and was curious as I'd never seen so many different ones all at once.

These aren't listed in the catalogues I have, so I don't really know what to watch out for. Any tips? Anything that has some value? Anything that jumps out at anyone? I'm interested to hear your thoughts!

Thanks!


Set 1-Upper Left

Set 1-Upper Right

Set 1-Lower Left

Set 1-Lower Right

Set 2-Upper Left

Set 2-Upper Right

Set 2-Lower Left

Set 2-Lower Right

Set 3-Left

Set 3-Right
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Valued Member
Spain
313 Posts
Posted 06/30/2021   04:49 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Roberto59 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hello.
I can only talk about the Spanish
These are the ones that are worth something, below are the emissions.
Of the others, all between 35 and 300 million were issued.
Regards.

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Valued Member
332 Posts
Posted 06/30/2021   12:03 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add patg23 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Frama:A postage stamp printed on demand from a vending machine.
Etymology: From the name of Frama AG, an early manufacturer of such machines.

That is a lot. Good start to a collection.
The German ones (Deutchland)are listed in the Michel German Specialized catalog.Not anything outstanding, but nice variety.


Also see here:
http://goscf.com/t/67171
I'd say organize and mount up.
Pat
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United States
10078 Posts
Posted 06/30/2021   12:16 pm  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Take plenty of digital images of your collection before the denominations fade away. Thermal printing specification is 5-7 years and as shown above you can see some of them are already fading.
Don
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Valued Member
332 Posts
Posted 06/30/2021   5:57 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add patg23 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Computer Vended Postage Stamps (machines installed at post offices and other kiosk locations)

These below are Personal Computer Postage (meant to be printed at home or office with computer and printer)

Listed in Scott as Endicia.com 2005-06: 1CVP43a,b,c & VOID and 1CVP44a,b,c &VOID

To Dons point:
I don't know if these were thermal printed or not,but you can see the one is badly faded and barely readable.The other in real life is quite fresh.They have been kept in the same stock book by each other for many years.

In may be a combination of the different paper/ink/adhesive used on each. (just a guess on my part)
Pat



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United States
10078 Posts
Posted 06/30/2021   6:34 pm  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thermal printing does not use a ribbon, ink cartridges, or toners (which is why it is often used in kiosks). Instead, the label itself reacts to heat (hence the 'thermal') and turns black, so it is simply a matter of applying heat in a pattern to activate the 'printing' of the denomination. The postal services really do not care that the stamps will not be readable years into the future, the purpose of the stamp is to pay for sending the item through the mail stream.
Don
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Valued Member
332 Posts
Posted 06/30/2021   8:08 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add patg23 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
So for the original OP's question. I don't know much about these, so I went looking and found this site.

More than I will ever need, but lots of interesting info.
http://www.ateeme.net/angles/welcome_a.html
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Valued Member
Ireland
268 Posts
Posted 07/01/2021   08:27 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add FitzjamesHorse to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I can only speak for Ireland which has been issuing these for more than a decade. In fact there are earlier experimental examples.
They are known here as Stamps on A Roll (SOAR). Each post office counter clerk has a computer/printer which issues the stamp in whatever denomination is required. Most smaller post offices no longer have commemorative stamps.
I have a collection of around 6,000 SOARs from about 1,000 different post offices. I have for example more than 50 issued in big city post offices and sometimes just one example from many small post offices.
A few years ago there were about 1,300 post offices. Now there are about 900 and I am still looking for SOARs from about 55 of them and in pre-Covid times, I travel around the country trying to pick up the missing stamps.
There is a theme to the SOARs. For a few years, Animals, Birds, Fish etc (usually 8 in a Roll)_. Then in 2016 we had Easter Rising (16 per roll) and since 2017 the theme has been Objects from Irish History (8 in a roll) and occasionally "popular" commemoratives are added)
There are I think 600 stamps in a roll arranged so that Stamp #1, 9, 17 have the same design and likewise #2, 10, 18 thru the roll.
There is not much value to them except that there is a small group of enthusiastic collectors, who are interested in the type face/font/colour might vary a little or the unusual denominations which can be anything from 1 cent to in my case €55.00.
For me it is the link to the post office itself.
There is a 14 digit code on every stamp.......the first four digits indicate where the stamp was issued (eg 1745 is Galway Post Office) and the fifth and sixth digit indicates the counter clerk 01, 02, 03 etc.
(I also have an interest in taking photographs of post offices).
But........are they stamps?
Well Gibbons certainly catalogued them but now (I am open to correction) list them seperately as "Machine Labels".
For what its worth, about three years ago a collector asked me to send him some Irish stamps and about 50% of the stamps I sent were SOARs and I wanted nothing in return but he was actually very angry to the point of rudeness that these were NOT stamps as they were not listed in Scotts.
There is really no real value to them.
But for me they ARE stamps. My main source is of course kiloware. I already have 6,000 in a collection and maybe another 3,000 unsorted.
This might help
https://collectingstampsofireland.w....com/?s=SOAR
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Edited by FitzjamesHorse - 07/01/2021 08:31 am
Pillar Of The Community
United States
1223 Posts
Posted 08/11/2021   05:33 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add erilaz to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I occasionally buy phone cards from a Delcampe seller in Austria who often uses these to mail my purchases. In addition to the denomination, the post office or event where it was purchased is printed on the stamp.
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Valued Member
United Kingdom
82 Posts
Posted 08/13/2021   09:18 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add WillUK to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Interesting series and I think whatever you get that is official and can be attached to an envelope and mailed is a stamp. What is not a stamp is most of the "collector" issues (IMHO). I am a Canadian currently living in N Ireland and also set aside the undamaged labels or indeed covers if they look great. Value - likely nil. I asked some similar questions on the UK stamp labels http://goscf.com/t/78199

I dont collect the mailing labels that you print yourself on your home printer ( eBay depop etc) but the official stamp labels from the Post Office I do keep. It is also amazing how few of these survive in decent condition. Just my 0.02 euro cents worth
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United States
6732 Posts
Posted 08/13/2021   6:08 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add bookbndrbob to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Here are two pages from my Germany album of computer-vended stamps. These are not thermal printings; they were printed on rolls of 2000 which were cut into individual, water-soluble gummed stamps/labels at point of purchase. They have typeset value printings, and every fifth stamp has a counting number. I collect them mint, used, mint with numbers, used with numbers, and errors.

Some people collect the counting numbers. Stamps can be removed from clippings with the numbers intact if it is done carefully and with some patience. A solution of 5% non-bleaching soap or shampoo is applied to the back of the clipping, and a wait time of approximately 5 minutes is required. Envelope paper type is an important factor in success or failure of this activity.

The bottom of the second page shown here has a stamp with a vertically-formatted counting number, as this particular series was in use when Germany went from horizontal to vertical counting numbers.

The Austrian computer-vended stamps shown several postings above are also of the "Klussendorf" type, named for the vending/dispensing machine.



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Edited by bookbndrbob - 08/13/2021 6:09 pm
Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
1262 Posts
Posted 10/05/2021   09:51 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add NSK to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Some Irish variable value stamps from FRAMA FE1710 machines.

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Pillar Of The Community
Netherlands
1262 Posts
Posted 12/20/2021   2:28 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add NSK to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
This is a picture of the Postbank office in the old town of Ingolstadt in Bavaria. These office, often, have a post office counter as can be seen from the posthorn sign below the Postbank logo. It was taken on Saturday (18 December 2021) It is located on the corner of the main thoroughfare Am Stein and the Milchstraße. To the side of the building facing Am Stein there stands a pillar-type vending machine for ATM labels.


This one is a free-standing machine and not affixed to the wall.


The main screen offers a few standard rates, a package of labels, a stack of make-up values and a choice of face value. Some options bring up a next screen with choices. The choice value screen allows changes up and down in cents, 10 cents and euros.


I have been playing around with the machine. These machines tend to return a 5 cents stamp in change, instead of coins. So, inserting a 20-cent coin after selecting a 15-cent stamp will give you the required stamp plus a 5-cent stamp as change or the choice to abort the purchase. I have not tried this with a one cent stamp, as that should return one cent stamps. But inserting two 20-cent coins after choosing a 25-cent stamp, will give you the choice to abort or accept a 25-cent stamp and three 5-cent stamps as change.

On 18 and 19 December 2021, the machine issued individual Klüssendorf labels cut from a roll with alternating designs. One shows a pen and items of mail, including written letters. The other shows a mailbox with a delivered letter sticking out. I played around with the machine. You may recognise the 60c postcard stamp, 80c standard letter rate – I should have realised the postcard I sent my German friend required a lower-rate stamp: only in Germany! -, and the 95c (C6-sized up to 50gr, and 1cm thick) from the main screen.


Every fifth label has a number at the back, indicating the number of labels left on the roll. And no, I did not print 75 labels, I walked by on Saturday (numbers 1855 and 1850) and on Sunday (1780).

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Edited by NSK - 12/20/2021 5:42 pm
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