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Would You Consider This An Airmail Stamp?

 
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Author Previous TopicReplies: 15 / Views: 613Next Topic  
Pillar Of The Community

United States
1241 Posts
Posted 06/09/2022   11:41 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add Timm to your friends list Get a Link to this Message


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Pillar Of The Community
United States
8013 Posts
Posted 06/09/2022   11:49 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Petert4522 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
If it has flown, yes!


Peter
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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
1344 Posts
Posted 06/09/2022   11:02 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add No1philatelist to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
That tag doesn't look too flimsy. Not addressed and no message on it either , so I would say it did not get wings and was not flown, but rather for display purposes. Still a nice clean item for "airmail" collection.
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Edited by No1philatelist - 06/09/2022 11:03 pm
Pillar Of The Community
United States
1241 Posts
Posted 06/10/2022   12:48 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Timm to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It's not the cover or if it has been actually flown. The stamp itself was issued for items to be carried by pigeon.
So are pigeon post stamps considered Airmails?
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
977 Posts
Posted 06/10/2022   01:04 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add mootermutt987 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Technically, I think it would be a very specific type of AirMail. I mean, you don't expect the pigeon to walk it there, do you? Now, as to whether it is a stamp or not - I would call it a label. Perhaps it could be considered a local airmail stamp.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
5958 Posts
Posted 06/10/2022   10:57 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add floortrader to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
it is a Cinderella stamp . Never was used for airmail .
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Pillar Of The Community
United Kingdom
504 Posts
Posted 06/10/2022   12:30 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Anthraquinone to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Air Mail stamp NO

Cinderella Yes ??

Private label definitely

AQ
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
7239 Posts
Posted 06/10/2022   1:17 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add bookbndrbob to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It appears that this Cinderella was carefully prepared and "postmarked" at someone's desk before being added to the stack of rarities.

I would need to see some photographic evidence before believing that this pristine, unfolded, uncurled message was anywhere near a bird, whether it was a pigeon or a condor.
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Pillar Of The Community
Learn More...
United States
611 Posts
Posted 06/10/2022   2:05 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jleb1979 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I share bookbndrbob's concern to see further evidence.

Pigeons carrying messages use a cylindrical capsule tied to a leg or sometimes the back. Not a tag weighed down with a brass grommet. But I note from a cursory Google search that while there was such a service in the summer of 1949 for Herm Island and which used stamps, after a radio telephone was installed, the remaining unused stamps were used on parcels. This tag looks like one for a parcel, not a pigeon.

While we ponder pigeon posts, check out the New Zealand "pigeongram," history of which is briefly covered at https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smar...d-180965342/

[edited to add the verb "used"]
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Edited by jleb1979 - 06/10/2022 2:06 pm
Pillar Of The Community
Canada
1344 Posts
Posted 06/10/2022   2:24 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add No1philatelist to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
My first comment was tongue in cheek. Yea, it is a cinderella "airmail" stamp or label and neatly cancelled for display. And yes it definately did not fly by pigeon or otherwise. Parcel tag, or small envelope, that description suits it better but there is no way the bird could fly with that hanging off the leg. Imagine the loss of flight control and acrobatics that animal would have with that hanging and flapping all over the place.
And it would end up being a piece of crash mail.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
2567 Posts
Posted 06/10/2022   3:04 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add txstamp to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
This sale covered general Pigeon posts -

https://siegelauctions.com/sales.php?sale_no=854

Lot 4151 appears of interest to this thread.

I want to say that this sale may have been cancelled - not sure.
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Bedrock Of The Community
Australia
35784 Posts
Posted 06/10/2022   4:31 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks Txstamps,

HERM ISLAND Pigeon Service, 1949. Complete pane of eight, flimsy and parcel post envelope, pane with tiny thin speck in one stamp and margin, otherwise Mint N.H., flimsy with stamp tied by "Herm Island 17 Jul. 1949" circular datestamp to Blackburn, envelope with hole at left for attachment to pigeon's leg and stamp tied by "Herm Island 1 Aug. 1952" circular datestamp to Guernsey, prepared as a favor after service ended,
Extremely Fine, the service operated between late May and Sept. 1949, making the flimsy a very scarce item, pane and cover illustrated in Bofarull (p.134) (Photo Ex) E. $500-$750

I came across this very item, in July 2015
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
7239 Posts
Posted 06/10/2022   4:35 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add bookbndrbob to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
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Bedrock Of The Community
Australia
35784 Posts
Posted 06/11/2022   01:06 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
If not used in Summer 1949, then used up on parcels subsequently.

2015

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Edited by rod222 - 06/11/2022 01:09 am
Pillar Of The Community
Canada
1344 Posts
Posted 06/11/2022   8:01 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add No1philatelist to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Looks like original post shows 14 Nov 1952.
Edit: So it does appear to be used as a parcel tag.
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Edited by No1philatelist - 06/11/2022 8:05 pm
Pillar Of The Community
United States
1269 Posts
Posted 06/11/2022   9:52 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Parcelpostguy to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I would view the stamps be they used as airmail or parcels as local post stamps. Issued to show payment for a postal service, but not recognized beyond the local area as being unrecognized by the UPU. Had the UPU recognized the Herm Island issues, then GB had no choice but to find the valid.

So it has been established in this thread in spite of some snark, that the stamps were issued and used for the purpose issued.

Here is more on the tension between Herm Island and GB:

https://www.stampcommunity.org/topi...OPIC_ID=4549

Edit: The above referenced thread is locked, so I will continue here. Philately has a bit of inconsistency about the terminology of stamps issued to pay for mailing services. While I can understand why local post stamps which are not recognized by the UPU for travel beyond the issuing authority's span of control are called Cinderellas by some. Yet the same folks don't call other stamps not recognized by the UPU as valid beyond the issuing entity's span of control.In fact entire countries not part of the UPU (at some time in their postal history) still have their stamps listed in postage stamp catalogs. Nepal for example. Yet even other stamps issued by private companies in colonial periods are recognized as stamps. There are many British Empire areas for which stamps were issued by a company with mail service handled by the company. GB was not the only country with such business ties. These area usually has geographic names with "Company" at the end.

Additionally UPU member countries at time issued stamps not recognized outside of the issuing country's span of control. These are not even given a name other than postage stamp. For example the USA Alphabet undenominated issues and the Christmas stamps of the same period not showing a value. Until, for the USA, "forever stamps" were recognized by the UPU none of the undenominated stamp were valid for international mail. No one calls these Cinderellas.

Likewise if a UPU country does not provide to the UPU designs of issued stamps, those too are not recognized beyond the span of control of the issuing authority. Revolution or serious civil unrest can lead to such failure to provide the information to the UPU. Yet those are still called stamps and listed in stamp catalogs.

It seems that what is more important than the fact the issued stamps paid for postal carriage is the human perception of the humans outside of the issuing authority.

All that said, here below is the only recorded example of duel franking involving parcel post stamp on a post card where the Mexican stamp issued during the revolution was not valid for postal purposes outside of Mexico. Thus a US stamp was added to cover the postage within the USA (and beyond if necessary).









I am not a fan of Bull Fighting, but I had no choice about the image in the unique postal example.

{For later searches: US Parcel Post, Q1, Q-1, one cent, Mexican Revolution stamp, unrecognized, dual franking, Mexico}
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Edited by Parcelpostguy - 06/11/2022 10:49 pm
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