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Japan Empress Jingu New Values Help

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Valued Member

United States
52 Posts
Posted 06/10/2022   4:28 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add dandow to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Can someone help me with this issue? I got rid of all of my ISJP catalogs, and I would like to know the color varieties, perf varieties (if any) and cancellations for this issue (1924 and 1938). Thanks!

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Bedrock Of The Community
Australia
36307 Posts
Posted 06/10/2022   5:04 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I have been practising navigating the Sakura catalogue (In Japanese)
Hidden away under "New High Value Issues" Page 238
I cannot see any reference to Perforation guages.
A difficult catalogue.

The portrait of Zingu Kogo, (surrounded by groundwork representing a pattern dating from ancient Japan)
printed December 1st 1924
(Previous plates lost in the earthquake and fire of 1923)
Intaglio
From what I can make out exist on Granite paper 1924 Wmk 1
and white paper 1937 Wmk 3


Britannica
Jingu, also spelled Jingo, in full , also called Okinagatarashi-hime No Mikoto, (born 170? CE, Japanódied 269?, Japan), semilegendary empress-regent of Japan who is said to have established Japanese hegemony over Korea.
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Edited by rod222 - 06/10/2022 5:13 pm
Valued Member
United States
52 Posts
Posted 06/12/2022   09:56 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add dandow to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Sorry! I meant to say JSCA catalogs, which provide more detail than Sakura (although all in Japanese). ISJP is the International Society for Japanese Philately, which is a great organization, https://isjp.org/
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Valued Member
United States
362 Posts
Posted 06/16/2022   10:46 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add StampGuy64 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I can't help you with that specific, but I wanted to share my own. Perhaps you might see a difference between yours and my own...

I like the issue a lot, else I wouldn't have them. The design-elements seem to be ahead of their time.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
6051 Posts
Posted 06/16/2022   11:12 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add floortrader to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Here are the stamps from my collection .

As you can see here there are shade differences and perf. differences .
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Edited by floortrader - 06/16/2022 11:13 pm
Bedrock Of The Community
Australia
36307 Posts
Posted 06/16/2022   11:18 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Lovely scans SG64
Not seen these up close before.
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Valued Member
United States
362 Posts
Posted 06/19/2022   06:55 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add StampGuy64 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
As a thank you to the original poster, for the inspiration, I dug out the two stamps, bathed them, then made new scans. The scan I posted previously is dated, and does not reflect the true appearance of the stamps. Here, the empress Jingu in all her legendary glory...

The reverse of the stamps, and illustrating the granite paper...

Lastly, the watermarks...

Thank you again.
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Valued Member
United States
52 Posts
Posted 06/19/2022   10:10 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add dandow to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks to all who have responded to my questions. I thought I might add some information for additional consideration. The first image is the Y5 green with the zig-zag wmk (Taisho wmk) on granite paper shown by StampGuy64. You may be able to see 4 shades of green (I can see them, although I think maybe there is only 2 shades). The upper left is yellow green, the upper right is green, the lower right is blue green and the lower left might be called bluish green. The second scan is the Y10 purple with Taisho wmk on granite paper. I think there are two shades, a red purple and a purple. I have many fewer of the Y5 and Y10 with Showa wmk (lines with alternating half circles) on white paper, but still can see two shades of the green and two shades of the blue. I know the Nissen (JSCA) catalog clearly lists all of the recognized color varieties, but alas, I sold all of mine, not thinking I would need them again.


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Posted 06/19/2022   11:02 am  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Sigh.

Stamp colors, and digital imaging, is the most misunderstood and confusing aspects of philately. Most folks think themselves good at IDing colors but this is far, far from the truth. Seeing colors is a human sensory perception, and none of us see a stamp color in the same way if we all stand in the same ambient lighting.

Being able to properly ID subtle stamp hues requires handling thousands of that specific stamp issue as a reference collection, defining and controlling the ambient lighting you ID under, and then developing a good color eye.

Adding a layer of technology on top of this, like trying to determine a stamp hue by using an image, requires technology experience and understanding. Once you have this, it is clear that using images is virtually useless of IDing subtle stamp hues.
Here is a simple example of just ONE of the issues with digital imaging. This image show the same postal card being scanned with the exact same scanner, firmware, and software, yet look how different the color appear to be.


The ONLY difference between the to scans above is that one was done with the scanner lid closed and one was done with the scanner lid open. No one other than myself and with the card in hand, knows which one is closest to the what was scanned.

There are many, many variables that go into how we all see colors. One of the most important is the ambient lighting (since color perception is all about how the ambient lighting reflects the wavelengths of the stamp).

Dealing with these variables is hard enough, but adding in a layers of technology makes it even harder. The images above look different on every single monitor, no two displays show the exact same colors. My computers with Windows 10/11 actually changes the colors after 8PM every day. So what color the images above looks like depends on the time of day!
Don
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Valued Member
United States
362 Posts
Posted 06/19/2022   4:45 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add StampGuy64 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Dandow, thanks for sharing those beautiful examples. For me, the Scott catalogue will always have limited information for stamps outside the U.S.; merely a gist, an honourable mention. Then, older, used, country-specific catalogues are missing only the current monetary values, and therefore are a great resource still. Thank you again.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
6051 Posts
Posted 06/19/2022   5:30 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add floortrader to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Colors/shades has always been something each collectors decides for themselfs. Catalogs have their own standards . The catalogs for many years have used dealer pricelist ,if they,the dealers list or sell them then the catalogs are under pressure to include them .

I collect and save them , but I don't go out of my way to buy them seperately . As you can see above I do save this issue in four shades and you guys miss the rough perfs of the earlier issue ,which is noticable in the above scan .
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Valued Member
United States
52 Posts
Posted 06/19/2022   5:58 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add dandow to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I finally got images of the Nissen (JSCA) catalog (all in Japanese) and I include them here, even though the images are poor. The information should be self-explanatory, except that all valuations are in yen and the catalog is about 15 years old. The Japanese will collect according to Nissen. While I agree with floortrader that everyone can collect color varieties to as much detail as they want, I find it useful to know what references others will use for this. From the first image, the Y5 Taisho wmk has two clearly identifiable colors (as I suspected), with 4 different perforations. Ditto for the Y10 Taisho wmk in the second image. It is interesting that some of perforation types are uncommon. The third image shows the Showa wmk types have 2 perf varieties. Enjoy!



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Valued Member
United States
362 Posts
Posted 06/19/2022   7:26 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add StampGuy64 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I've seen the most ghastly images from sellers's scanners and cameras, too many; blurred, overly brightened, overly contrasted, paper-debris scattered round them. Here's an example of one quickly and overly done, then how it appears, I feel, once a concerted effort is made to process it properly...

...and to where one might peel it off the screen and place it into an album or stockbook. That is the hope, the wish, however feeble.

Then, by brightening a smaller area just a bit, I can see that it is indeed the purple-brown variant...

Another aspect that can alter one's perception is gum arabic. Among the older and oldest stamps, mint or used, over the decades what gum is still present will seep into the body of a stamp, yellowing the whiteness of the paper, altering and deepening the original colour of the ink even, much like the way oil, shellac, wax, et al, will darken the surfaces, the colour, of fine woods upon applying. The gum reaches the front of a stamp even, making it sticky. I refer to those as having been entombed by their gums. I've had quite a few where the fronts stuck to the blotting-paper of my drying-book as a result.
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Edited by StampGuy64 - 06/19/2022 7:41 pm
Valued Member
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362 Posts
Posted 06/19/2022   7:30 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add StampGuy64 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Just as those stamps were postmarked per an emperor's reign, so the watermarks as well, and most interesting.
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Valued Member
United States
362 Posts
Posted 06/21/2022   12:45 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add StampGuy64 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I've had this one for many years, so long that I can't remember exactly where I got it; perhaps at a brick-and-mortar stamp shop in the city where I lived, over 25 years ago. This was first, yet second printing, of Jingu's appearance on a stamp of Japan.

1914, 5y green...

I love what appear to be lanterns, at each side near the bottom, and the flowers and ribbons near the top, however they've all but disappeared behind that one's cancellation.

Then, I have a 5y and 10y pair on its way, and of the first printing of 1908, unwatermarked, but I won't know for certain until they arrive.

I was able to get some of the yellowish toning out of the stamp, but the toning was caused, not by gum arabic as is usual, but by the ink of the cancellation, and what I call "ink burn". There will no getting that completely out, ever, without risking the saturation of the colour of the printing-ink.
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Bedrock Of The Community
Australia
36307 Posts
Posted 06/21/2022   02:26 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I love what appear to be lanterns


Not Lanterns, Bells named EKIREI

The bell to commandeer coolies, and stage-horses in Ancient Japan

Coolies (as quoted) not intended as pejorative
coolie, (from Hindi Kuli, an aboriginal tribal name, or from Tamil kuli, "wages"),





https://www.japanese-wiki-corpus.or.../Ekirei.html
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Edited by rod222 - 06/21/2022 02:38 am
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