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Census Of 2c Harding, Rotary Perf 11 (Scott 613)?

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Posted 02/15/2023   12:50 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add Jujustamps to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
This stamp is unused and lightly hinged. Pref 11
Is this the rare stamp?




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Posted 02/15/2023   01:52 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add JLLebbert to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The odds that you will win the lottery this week are much better than your stamp being a Scott 613. That said, find a stamp of the same design that measures perf 10 ... which would be a Scott 612. Then compare the physical height of the DESIGN of your stamp with that of the perf 10 stamp. While any difference would be small, if present it can be seen with the naked eye. But don't try to measure the difference ... measuring such small differences is fraught with difficulty. If the stamps are of the same height, then you might consider sending it for certification. But bet heavily on the perf 10 stamp being just a small bit taller than yours.
Added: Another clue is the white background surrounding Harding's head. On the rare stamp, it doesn't appear quite as "white" as it does on yours.
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Edited by JLLebbert - 02/15/2023 02:01 am
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Posted 02/15/2023   02:51 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add NSK to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
How do these pictures show the stamp's perforation gauge is 11? The dots do not line up with the perforations, there is a progressive shift. This suggest it is an incorrect measurement.
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Posted 02/15/2023   03:04 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
there is a progressive shift.

Agree.
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Posted 02/15/2023   04:53 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add JLLebbert to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I think the perf on the OPs stamp is actually 11 ... or, to be more precise, probably 10.9. Remember, Scott tends to round perforation measurements, so the perfs might not line up exactly on this type of gauge. The "white" in the oval convinces me that it is not a perf 10 ... or, once again in the interest of being precise, perf 9.9. Most 612s have a sort of "dingy" look in the white background.
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Posted 02/15/2023   07:39 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
This stamp is a flat plate printing.
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Posted 02/15/2023   12:41 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add caspian65 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Scott does not list a value for Unused 613. That would infer no known unused copies have been found.
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Posted 02/15/2023   5:43 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Jujustamps to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Why is everyone so negative? Why can't this be that stamp? 11 pref is what this stamp is and that's a fact. It's not impossible is it now?
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Posted 02/15/2023   5:46 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It is not about being "negative". It is about the truth and whether or not it comports with what you wish the stamp to be. If you are not happy with the answers here because they do not agree with what you wish, then submit the stamp to the Philatelic Foundation along with a check and report back the findings.
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Posted 02/15/2023   5:48 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
And your first post here was about a stamp that you think is a 594. Rarities are just popping up everywhere.
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Guernsey
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Posted 02/15/2023   5:56 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Sergio to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The rotary #612 from personal examples show circles in each corner with a clear grid, where #611 Flat plate circles grid are usually/generally not visible, and appear as a black filled circle.
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Posted 02/15/2023   5:57 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add NSK to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Just read the many posts about this stamp from people thinking they won the lottery.
Even as a non-USA collector, I am aware of the enormous odds against finding the stamp you hope it is. And that is for a used example.

As JLLebert wrote, catalogues tend to round the perforation gauge. Your pictures only show the stamp does not align with that gauge 11. Rounding means there can be a misalignment, but your pictures do not show it is the best alignment. He also tells you how you can check, but remarks it doesn't have a certain characteristic of the stamp you hope it is. You might take his advice and check.
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Posted 02/15/2023   6:26 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jleb1979 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thank you for posting the scan of the back of the stamp.

Part of the fascination we feel for the hobby is that slight, and sometimes subtle differences in stamps can have substantial meaning, and perhaps substantially different valuations.

While it is perf 11, the back of your stamp sure looks like a flat plate printing and not a rotary. Thus, a 610.

Get hold of a 610, used is fine, and compare the size of the printed image of yours and the 610 carefully and they will match whereas a 613 would be ever so slightly taller.

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Posted 02/15/2023   11:33 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add JLLebbert to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Why is everyone so negative? Why can't this be that stamp?

First, I don't think anyone here is being negative. Realistic? Yes indeed! Rare stamps are ... well, rare. I was not joking when I opined that you had a better chance to win the lottery. Frankly, I would have bet every dime I had that your stamp was not a 613 without even seeing it. That is how unlikely it is that your stamp was a 613.
The scans of your stamp confirm that it cannot be a 613. It is most definitely a 610. I presume you asked your question here because you believed someone here had the specialized knowledge to identify your stamp. There are many such members here ... a few of them, me included, have given their opinion. But, to be blunt, your scans are absolute proof that the stamp is a 610.
That said, I will admit that finding a 613 at this point in time, while highly unlikely, is not impossible. I recall reading an article a few years ago about someone who obtained a large hoard of 2-cent black Hardings. We're talking of a quantity in 6 figures. He was knowledgeable and assiduously examined his hoard. I don't recall how long it took him, but I do know that it was more than a year ... and he did indeed find a 613. He may have even found two or three of them. I just don't recall the full story. But the current census of rare stamps still shows less than 50 known 613 copies.
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Posted 02/16/2023   12:10 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rogdcam to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
But the current census of rare stamps still shows less than 50 known 613 copies.


All used.
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Posted 02/16/2023   03:57 am  Show Profile Check 51studebaker's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
For more information on the Harding Memorial stamps, see here (towards bottom of page)
https://stampsmarter.org/1847usa/ByYear/1923.html
Don
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