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Berlin 1945/46 - Not A Watermark Exactly!

 
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Pillar Of The Community
Australia
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Posted 01/23/2011   7:35 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add jimjamtwo to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
I came across this interesting stamp yesterday. It's from occupied Germany circa 1945/46:



Instead of a watermark, it has fat lines impressed in the paper, leaving behind a kind of pattern of ridges that really looks very good. I'm not sure that there's a design as such, but it's certainly an interesting variation on the idea of a watermark.



Has anyone heard of this technique before or know anything specific about the kind of 'watermark' being used here? The only comparable instance I can think of is the 19th century Swiss ovals that were impressed in the paper.
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Edited by jimjamtwo - 01/24/2011 03:04 am

Bedrock Of The Community
Australia
38679 Posts
Posted 01/24/2011   05:39 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I cannot see anything from your scan
of the back of the stamp.

This is my guesstimation.
If we were going to make our own paper
and I made a small frame of wood and nailed flyscreen over it
then sieved a small amt of wood pulp and let it dry
then that would be "woven" paper.

If we added a fine wire every inch or so, next to the flyscreen
sieved the pulp and shook the screen so the paper fibres
settled in one direction, that would be "laid" paper

The paper when dried would show the lines of the wires
next to the screen. (sort of a semi watermark)
If we laid the wires in a diamond shape,
that may give the result which you see.
Do you get my drift

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Pillar Of The Community
Australia
2156 Posts
Posted 01/24/2011   07:41 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jimjamtwo to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
rod222, I was quite pleased with the scan - all the lighter areas are raised surfaces. It looks deliberate to me, but as you suggest it may just have been an accidental by-product of the process by which the paper was made. Regardless, it looks very nice in real life. Of course, it really needs to be seen in 3D - and, in fact, I only noticed the contours when I held the stamp at an angle to the light.

The stamps of immediate post-WWII Germany seem to be full of unusual papers and watermarks. Clearly, it's a very large field of study I have happened upon.
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Pillar Of The Community
Australia
2156 Posts
Posted 01/24/2011   08:12 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jimjamtwo to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Anyway, I've processed the image of the reverse of the stamp so as to make the contours more visible.



It would be very odd, surely, if wires were placed to produce this kind of result, but if it was done intentionally this would make it a very unique kind of paper.
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Edited by jimjamtwo - 01/24/2011 3:42 pm
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United States
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Posted 01/24/2011   3:47 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Cjd to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
That looks like laid paper. My business cards are printed on laid paper. It can have a look that might be described as something akin to corduroy fabric.

I think there were four paper types for this issue, but it is outside my usual era, so I haven't paid that much attention to them.
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Posted 01/24/2011   4:19 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jimjamtwo to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Cjd, I suppose I thought laid paper always involved lines going in the same direction, e.g., vertically, horizontally, or, much less frequently, diagonally. I'm not sure it would make sense to lay wires in this kind of pattern - unless, of course, the idea was to give the paper a distinctive appearance.
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Posted 01/24/2011   4:31 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Cjd to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I guess we were looking at two different characteristics on the scan. Laid paper is a series of parallel "lines." I'll have to let someone who spends time with these stamps take a shot at this...if no one does, I'll see what Michel has to say later this evening.
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Pillar Of The Community
Australia
2156 Posts
Posted 01/24/2011   5:32 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jimjamtwo to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Cjd, I see what you mean. Yes, the stamp is on horizontally laid paper. But what's interesting is rather the pattern of ridges - in the processed scan all the lighter areas you can see are raised, as if embossed.

This seems to my eyes to have been deliberately done and, from an aesthetic standpoint, the result is extremely pleasing. I'd be interested in knowing what the catalogues say about the watermarks for this issue.
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Edited by jimjamtwo - 01/26/2011 12:24 am
Pillar Of The Community
Australia
2156 Posts
Posted 01/26/2011   4:59 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jimjamtwo to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I think I've found the answer to this question: on StampsX.com someone is selling this stamp and one other from the same set. The seller states that the stamps have 'horizontally ribbed gum.' I've never heard of this before, but I'd say that this is what is happening here.
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Edited by jimjamtwo - 01/26/2011 4:59 pm
Bedrock Of The Community
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Posted 01/26/2011   5:11 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Your scans make it hard to asess,
but have you considered this may be an example of "spargummi" ?
That may be an option.


Another option, "gum breakers" can look like laid paper sometimes.
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Edited by rod222 - 01/26/2011 5:14 pm
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2547 Posts
Posted 01/26/2011   11:51 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Russ to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
jimjam, here is a scan of my copy of the 20pf value in the same set. The gum is applied in horizontal rows with a small elongated hexagon making up the rows. The hex shape is most visible in the lower right corner. I have several other values in this set and all have the same gum pattern.

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Edited by Russ - 01/26/2011 11:52 pm
Pillar Of The Community
Australia
2156 Posts
Posted 01/27/2011   07:44 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jimjamtwo to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Russ, I greatly appreciate the info and thanks for the scan. I thought there was a kind of pattern to it and that it had been done intentionally. I am very surprised, though, to learn that it's the gum not the paper.
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United States
2547 Posts
Posted 01/27/2011   09:00 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Russ to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The gum has a "fishscale" appearance in horizontal rows.
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Edited by Russ - 01/27/2011 09:00 am
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