New Zealand Newspaper Stamp Watermark

I am posting an unanswered question from a philatelic buddy of mine. The stamp in question is a New Zealand newspaper stamp shown below.


According to the Scott catalog, the stamp comes in 4 basic watermark varieties -- unwatermarked, NZ watermark, NZ with star watermark, and star watermark. The NZ, if present, should be single-line. In the pic below, his stamp appears to show a double-line Z.


Is this some lettering from the edge of the watermark mat, or a variety not mentioned in Scott? If from the edge of the watermark mat, does anybody know the full lettering/format along the edge, or have a link/reference? Thank you in advance!

k

may occaisionally be found with watermarked double lined letters
being portion of the paper makers name,
(soldered on the dandy roll I suspect)

this info refers to dec 1855 issues, but would
address your stamp as well I guess.

Thank you Rod, that's what I was guessing.

I was curious whether it was paper manufacturer, or maybe NEW ZEALAND lettering -- so was wondering if anyone might have a reference.

Thanks for the reply!

This is a reply to your philatelic buddy before,
is he not happy with this explanation?

---------------------


I've got limited knowledge of this country, but just based on what I'm seeing & reading:

It's definitely not a "2". (That "swan neck" you're seeing looks like a hinge remnant at the bottom & part of the cancellation on the top, and separated from the "z") It is a clear "z" and an exact match to what looks like watermark 63. (Top left of the "z" is a dead giveaway)

The 2 notes are telling: the one after the P1 listing & the one after the watermark ID section at the beginning of the country.

The one after P1 says: "The N Z watermark (illustrated over No. 27) is widely spaced & intended for larger stamps." {No idea what "Illustrated over No. 27" means???}

The one at the beginning of the country says: "On watermark 61 the margins of the sheets are watermarked "NEW ZEALAND POSTAGE" and parts of the double-lined letters of these words are frequently found on the stamps."

Based on that, I would say it is watermark 61 - but the listings say that doesn't exist!

I would ID this stamp by the perfs - from the picture, they look like 10, but you can check that easily. If perf 10, it is P1. P3 & P4 are both perf 12 or 12 1/2. (Of course, they also list P1b as 12 1/2, so if 12 1/2, you're back to square one...)

By process of elimination, it can't be P3. Watermark 64 has no letters.

Anyone with a NZ specialized cat know what happened to P2??

Given the dates involved, I would say the chances of being printed on Tasmanian paper are as likely as any other scenario!

In any case, a nice find Franz!

A bit wonky, but I think I can see the "E" adjacent

forming part of ZEALAND

[EDIT: previous post text removed]

OK, I now realize which thread/forum you are quoting from, so I removed the original post text.




The problem still remains, to which watermark this double-lined Z might have belonged.

I guess I should clarify my curiosity in this matter -- does the double-lined NEW ZEALAND POSTAGE appear on the edges of all these watermarks, or only a few of them (and which ones)?

Ah! I can see where he is coming from.

I cannot answer that.
One would assume that a paper maker would not have 3 dandy rolls
for his paper maker, so you would think that this
mark only applies to one particular wmk.
Hence a specialist NZ query .

Philately at work, without prior knowledge,
the only way to ascertain which wmk, would be to find a multiple
stamp block with wmk and paper makers name evident.
A tough ask :)

I suspect the evidence is noted somewhere.

If we know that (SG) wmk 2 has NEW ZEALAND in double lined letters
as the papers name, then at least, by deduction
we can say without contradiction that
SG 143,144,145 could be his stamp

If he supplies that stamps perforation
we can single it down to one stamp at least that is definite.

Also,
paper used for 143,144,145 was originally intended for fiscal use
and so, on some stamps it appears as unwatermarked.
giving rise to SG 146 147,148

I would suspect the double lined letter example
to be amongst these.

Thanks for your help, Rod! Much appreciated! We had read a lot of great and reasonable guesswork based on limited information, but were hoping for an exact citation/reference for definitive support.

As I stated, I am behind the times. After I had posted here, he informed me that he had gotten this reply, which is quoted below:




Thanks, Rod and any others who might have been searching for a complete answer. I really appreciate it!

So, I am rather surprised to learn the NEW ZEALAND watermark ended up near the middle of the sheet!!