Canada Small Queen #37 3c Montreal And Ottawa Printings I.d.

Gilles- Think all bets are off with that one. The extra dots are called either pawnbroker or balloon dots but I don't see any listing for them in SM queens. Your color could be 35a,d,ii,iv,v,vi depending if 12x12 or 11.5x12. Now how the perffed corner ended up that way is beyond me- can speculate what may have happened but odd the way it didn't tear improperly.
EDIT- I get perf 12x12 exact and where the corner is off it still lines up perfectly at perf12. That narrows it down to 35a ii,iv,v

Cynical, here it is... with 2 friends which I don't know where they come from! Can you tell me?

First one is dated Jan 28, 1895 and the other one Oct 15, 1894

Koala: thanks for the Orangeville image. I'm interested in it because it was the terminal station on the Teeswater-Orangeville railway line. One of the other two is Thorne, Ontario, which is on the Ottawa River. Haven't figured out the third. Much appreciated.

2 x #35 yellow
. both perf exactly 12.25 x 12.25 (Lighthouse Stamp Perforation Gauge Model ZS)
. lower left dot : first pic cannot determine and no dot on second pic
. no date on both

By the perf (more than 12x12), I would say they're Montreal print (but no dot... probably from first column??) and
by the quality of the paper (grayish, rough, rag...), I would say it's Ottawa printing BUT not Ottawas in reference to the perforation The paper is not white, smooth... as to Montreal print.
The color is more yellow (Ottawa) than orange (Montreal)... FIOU!

Here's the fascinating part :

Look at the red lines on the back of each stamp
It's an imprint directly in/on the paper since there is no gum (mark from a pad or else could have stick to the gum and leave an imprint)
The lines are square with both stamps.

Where would that paper (with mark) come from? It is not a watermark (I think) but it is a mark

wert : with your software, can you please see if there is a dot under the cancel mark of first stamp?

Any questions to help you out?

Cynical, my pleasure. Did you work there?

The later ottawa and montreal printings went to cheaper paper stock . Most of the 12.25's I have on the 3c are all 41's so later printings. Not sure what the red lines are or if they were absorbed into the paper from mounting possibly on some type of red rulled graph or accounting ledger type paper. We know from a previous post that apparently there was only 1 die that made all the plates for the sm queens but I'm not sure if all early issues specifically the 1-2-3c all had plate dots up to a certain time frame.We have seen the dots on the 1c so its safe to assume that all early printings had the position dot. (assuming has proved to be a bad move on these issues so toss all the above out the window)

Went through the majority of my singles and out of 170 or so singles only 20 with confirmed plate dots (37's) Maybe another 20 perffed into the image making dot undetectable but most of them look vermillion. The interesting part is when I perffed these I come up with several 11.75's and some 12.25's none of which are listed in the 37's. None with perf 11.5 which is listed , However there is a variety of 41 with a 12.25x 12 perf which makes me wonder if the switch from Kiusalas gauge to the gibbons was in and around this time frame, although there are listings in the large queens for extremely accurate perffing. I'm not saying re write unitrade for my purposes but there are definite perf meaurements within the 3 c issues that are not listed or noted. I don't have as many 1-2c issues but enough to look at so that will follow in time.

Can't leave these alone- Couple new additions one mng m with some gum remains. Left stamp is definatly a 37 with plate dot at bottom as well as top which is likely from misperfing top row. Both stamps perf at 12x12 . Left hand stamp has far more detail throughout especially ornaments and corners. What I did notice and hopefully the images will show what I'm seeing is almost a complete shift either up or down across complete stamp. Note the inking across the tops of the letters canada postage and double lines on QV's chin. Also doubbling in lower frame lines. I don't think this to be a re-entry as it is constant across whole stamp - maybe a paper shift or minor double impression?

A factor that can affect perforation measurements is whether the stamps are mint or used. Used stamps have been mostly soaked with water to get them off of their envelopes. These days, it is wise not to soak stamps off envelopes especially old ones since postally used covers are of great postal history interest. Mint stamps can sometimes be affected by their gum, but are preferable to used ones for perforation measurements, especially larger multiples such as blocks. Also, consistency is very important since as one starts to measure many stamps, one will start to notice a pattern where certain perforations have similar measurements. Yes, there is the perfect 12.0 and the perfect 12.25 which lies between Kiusalas gauge measurements making them more like 12-65.5 and 12-64.5. For the U.S., there is already a 11-72.5 which fits better than 11-73 which some say does not exist. An interesting reference on this subject is "Stamp Perforations with Particular Emphasis on Canadian Stamps" which may be further helpful on this issue since the Large and Small Queens have several different perforation measurement variations some of which are not fully covered by the Canadian Kiusalas specialist gauge.

I agree that the Kiusalas gauge does not cover the small queens well. I have now been measuring them with a fine steel machinists ruler in 1/64ths of an inch, and have found a pattern. I am putting the results in Excel and will post it when finished.

I believe the Kuisalas gauge was based on the premise that the perfs can be measured using the Imperial (eg. inches) system vs. the metric (eg, cm) system.

Based on my studies, the Kuisalas is not the best gauge for the small queens because the premise it was designed around is most likely a false one.

I use a "Perfect' gauge, which is almost identical to the yellow "Instanta". I would buy an Instanta if I could find one as most experts agree it is the best gauge for the small queens.

Something like 15.25 (15 1/4) perforations per inch gives about 12.01 perforations per 2 cm which makes more sense for this one than Kiusalas.