Bayern 18kr Black/Gold

I cannot find a listing in Scott's 2010 for a Bayern/Bavaria A1a 18kr Franco that is gold on black. Letters are gold. Unused. OG.

Also have 1851 Spain seis quartos error on brown paper. Has right number of pearls in headband and right number of chin lines according to "Album Weeds".

Any thoughts on the 18kr black gold?

Got world album form great great ain't 30 years ago.

Welcome to SCF Bob.

On the Bayern 18 Kr.; it might help if we can see a scan of it. I don't have a Scott (use Michel for my German collection), so I can't give you any info on that. I do have a suspicion this might either be a fake stamp or a label, both connected to the 1862 issue of this type of stamp.
But like I said, just a suspicion, a scan of your stamp might get you a solution.

I just had a look in my Michel catalogue and I could not find a black/gold 18 Kr. either. I second Tinus_NL. I don't know what you got there but without a scan we can't clear that up, I'm afraid.

Thank you for a start and comments.
I will try and scan today and post to thread. I'm at church summer camp n working from phone!
Be looking for the scan soon.
Thank you all so much.
Bob+

I assume you mean this stamp:



Are you saying you have one, gold (or yellow) on black paper?

Yes, BeeSee.
Black background with gold/yellow lettering.
Outer frame/size of stamp: 22x21.5mm
thin line inner frame: 19x19mm
Inner frame with circle: 12x12mm
has the no. 18 in each corner
Reads top-rt-btm-left: Bayern, Kreuzer, Franco, Achtzehn (all caps).

I'd like to see a photograph, FrBobT. My best guess is that the paper was stained or discolored. I can't think of any Bavaria stamps being printed on black paper, but until we see it, who can say?

Brian

It would be great to see a scan.

My best guess is that you have a label printed in black on gold/yellow paper. This would make the lettering appear in gold/yellow.

Michel has the following note: "Bei Marken im schwarzen Druck auf farbigen Papier in Ziffernzeichnung wie MiNr. 2-13 handelt es sich um sogen, "Instruktionsmarken", die als Verschlußetiketten der Bogentaschen dienten."

I take this to mean that labels of the kind described were used to seal (and identify) the stamp sheets when they were distributed.

My idea as well nigel, it's the only clue I can find in my Michel without having a visual of the stamp in question.

This - however - means, that the printing is black and the paper is colored. This would rule out "gold lettering". Black print on colored paper should not appear as "gold lettering". I am still very interested what that "stamp" really looks like ....

Hi George,

You've missed my point. In this design the letters are not printed - they are reversed out and will appear in the colour of the paper. If the paper is gold-coloured then I would expect the letters to appear gold.

Here's the stamp:

1849 18Kr A1a black, gold
Numeral Height: 18.5mm
Numeral width (from outside edge of 1 to outside edge of 8: 8.5mm
Paper is heavy/thick.
Other dimensions were posted earlier.
Hope these pics arrive. First time try.

It looks like it was similar to the one Bee see showed earlier, but had come into contact with some kind of tarry paper perhaps, and the black from that transferred to the 18kr stamp.

I like the millwheel cancels found on these mostly.

Well it is black on "gold" anyway, NOT gold on black as FrBobT said.

I had had an old Canada stamp that had been stuck on some kind of old-time tape similar to duct tape now I think and the blackness of it had migrated through to the stamp after years of being in contact with it.

I think, like yours, the original stamp was somewhat valuable so the previous collectors had kept it as that was their only copy of it. Years ago that's what people did, save whatever copy they had and were happy with it as not everyone could afford the real McCoy.

Both 18k stamps in Scott (#8 yellow, #14 red) are type A2 with the full circle to the left of the value. The black stamp clearly has the flat or broken circle, type A1a.

Perhaps it is a forgery in a different color.