China Overprints

khj,

Can you expand please?
Are you able to supply Scott numbers?
What is / where is the secret mark?

I see 2 different stamps, the value numerals are different, and the Chinese characters are different.

Look forward to learning......


Unlisted Scott
Kwangtung Postal Savings Stamp Sc# Type A62

Expanding the topic somewhat, some Chinese stamps of the kind you don't bump into every day in Spink's forthcoming Hong Kong sale

https://www.spink.com/files/catalogue/CSS24.pdf

Yes, Spinks often has material that is not listed in Scott, but is listed in Ma. And of course, material so unique/specialized that it isn't listed anywhere. Too bad I'll never be able to afford any of it.

I really like that they make their catalogs available as pdf's. As you posted elsewhere, it's still nice to see pretty stamps, even if I can't own it.

Sorry Rod, I went to sleep soon after posting that.

In the Scott catalog, see the header information above Republic of China #381. Yes, you are correct, the secret mark is in the Chinese character at top right corner.

Not sure which year Scott you have, but they did correct a confusing header arrangement a few years ago. The entire section from #381-401 is for Type III with secret mark (they have now added that immediately in front of #381). The only difference between the 2 subsets #381-391 and #392-#401 is the watermark.

You mentioned Northeast China #9 (left stamp) and #10 (right stamp). The original non-overprinted stamps are Republic of China #354 and #384, respectively. Both are Type III (I believe this denomination only exists as Type III). The latter has the secret mark.

Good thing you asked. I now realize that in the newer edition Scott, they illustrate the 3 types above the header for #344. Wish they had done that decades earlier! The phrase "partially shaded" is not as clear as it sounds -- you don't fully understand what constitutes "partially shaded" until you see the stamp.

Here is an annotated snippet from Scott:



Disregard the fairly useless text description provided by Scott. I've marked with a red arrow what to look for. In the stamp with the secret mark, the two strokes are joined to form a continuous vertical left side.

Right. khj
I got it.
I Identified the 2 stamps correctly, but misunderstood the "shading"
I'll need to get a type ll $1 or $2 to see the shading difference

Thank you very much for your correction.

Nope...still having problems

If what you say is correct, the Northeast Provinces Opt should be on #354 and #394 ?

Scott says #354 and #384

What I am I doing wrong?

As mentioned earlier, Scott has revised its headers in front of ROC #381, I assume because it was really confusing to those who didn't have the entire sets.

ROC #384 is for Type III with secret mark but unwatermarked. ROC #394 is for Type III with secret mark and watermark 261. Your Northeast China #9 should be unwatermarked, hence the original non-overprinted stamp is ROC #384.

You may be using Scott catalog before Scott changed the header. Previously, the note "Type III with Secret Marks" appeared in the following 2 places:

1) after ROC #380 and the subsequent main header "Printed by Dah Tung Book Co."
2) after ROC #391 and before ROC #392

This lead to the confusion that only #392-401 had the secret mark, when in fact all of #381-401 had the secret mark. You probably have one of those Scott editions.

Starting with the 2016 Scott catalog, they moved the first header to right above ROC #381, to make it clear that both subsets are Type III with the secret mark.

Sorry if my explanation made Scott's clarification more confusing!

My China collection is archived in storage, so I can't provide a scan.

The Scott catalog now illustrates the 3 types. Couldn't scan, so I took a quick camera pic (sorry for poor resolution/lighting).

From left to right are Type I through Type III.

I have pointed to the area of interest with a green arrow.



The Type I and Type II that only have partial shading beneath the top frame line, there are a lot fewer vertical shading lines as you move toward the sides of the stamp. The vertical shading lines only appear up to a few millimeters from the sun emblem, and then are nearly completely absent so that it looks like a long narrow horizontal white area as you move outwards.

On some Type III, the vertical shading lines toward the ends get a little weaker (I don't know why, I'm guessing it might be due to poor inking of the added lines), and is often mistaken for Type II. But you should be able to see a clear significant "white" area in Type I and Type II.

Thanks for your persistance khj, and your time.
this is doing my head in.

I'll re visit later on today, and see if I can crack it.

A large download, but well worth it, thanks Geoff.

I now add a folder under Country / Catalogues, and add these type *.pdf's
They are fabulous records.