German Stamp Values

Again I am new here so bear with me.

I actually have two questions.

1. If I am reading the 2008 Scott Catalog correctly, the stamp I have posted is worth about .50. However, cancelled it is worth $125 or something like that. So is it safe to say some cancelled stamps can be worth more than mint?

2. Notice the extra paper on this stamp and the overprint is included on this tab. Does this add, subtract, or make no difference in the value of the stamp?

It's not only safe to say, but it is fundamental that SOME stamps are worth more used than mint; that, in turn, spawned an industry of fake cancellations.

The extra paper, called selvage, definitely adds value to stamps; the Michel (German-area) Catalog prices various types of selvage, especially for 19th Century material, but also as recently as the 1950s. Don't remove it!

You read correctly! Post WW1, Germany suffered from some of the worst inflation ever recorded. Stamps were issued, then reissued, on and on with higher and higher face values, but the reality is that mailing a letter was a luxury most Germans could not afford. As a result, the vast majority of stamps issued during the "Inflationary" or "Weimar" era (1919 to 1933) are worth more used, than unused. As Doug stated, this has since spawned an industry of faking cancellations. So if you intend to collect used stamps from this era, buyer beware!

Brian

I think fake cancellations are obvious to those who are into the unscrupulous money making aspect of collecting. How could you ever determine if the cancellation was fake, especially if the stamp had been removed from the envelope?

Second point regarding "selvage" Are there any catalogs suggesting values on that?

Just like my interest is in U.S. "color shift" stamps, is this just a market for specialized collectors with the same eye>

Sorry, I didn't read the complete post on the first response about Michel......

I realize this is a slight digression from your original question, but is worth the excercise, imo.







Not always true. The unscrupulous have made a living off forgeries. Mint stamps are plentiful and cheap, so they can afford to practice. Scott recommends only purchasing used stamps that are accompanied by a certificate from a recognized expertizer, the German Philatelic Society has volumes of books dedicated to fake cancellations, and even the most seasoned collectors have been fooled. The forgers are really, really good at what they do!

Cheers!

Brian

A zillion years ago when I was in college, a friend of mine would take mint stamps (not U.S.) out of his album, and use them on letters to home. One time he even used Green Stamps.

I suspect if one lived in Germany and was a "picker" real cancellation equipment could be found along with the ink. It also occurs to me detecting the fake cancellation could involve destroying the stamp in the process. Ala, to tell the difference between a fake pearl and a real one--drop the pearl in vinegar--if it dissolved, it was real.

GMIMS------Those inflations stamps of Germany were printed in the millions and many of those stamps exist in full sheets .A few years ago {actually 1970's} you can purchase full sheets of 100 stamps for about 10 cents per sheet .The market for side markings is very specialisted and traded for the full intact sheet and not just the tab like you have .
On the subject of forgeries and unscrupulous sellers that is a gray area and would need a seperate whole page to discuss it . But it is safe to say here that there are bad -poor attempts to fake the cancelations on the Inflation issue and easy to identify .Then there are some very fine fake cancels and cancels used outside of the period when the stamp was aviable from the post-office . So the study of proper use is complicated.
As far as unscrupulos sellers ,every one both honest and dishonest sellers wants to sell know fakes to the unsuspecting and also want to sell to people who are wishful dreamers ,someone who thinks they are smarter than the seller and will push the price higher to get their pot -of-gold . These are the type of buyers who I hope to bid on my auction lots and run the price up -------AM I UNSCRUPULOUS ----I want the buyer to think he is finding a diamond in the rough and he could make money off of his purchase ,as long as I don't make the claim what it is and let them bid it up does that make me unscrupulous ,I just show a scan and let the buyer make his own choice to what it is .

It's my understanding that, during the German Hyper-inflationary period, it sometimes required hundreds of stamps to mail a single letter. In many instances, the sender was forced to band entire sheets of stamps to a letter, thus the majority of individual stamps did not receive a cancellation, even though they were used to pay postage. Please feel free to correct me if this is in error!

I recently bought a lot of 50 stamps from Prophila, a German company, via their ebay store and I received three copies of a stamp which, if the cancels were genuine, would have a CV of 400 Euros each. However, the same fake cancel was on all three stamps.

So you really have to watch out, even when you buy stamps from long-established players like Prophila.

milehigh, I've never seen an Inflation-era cover with uncancelled stamps on it. While I cannot say that this never happened, it would have been very inconsistent with the general practice, which was to cancel each and every stamp. It must have been extremely tedious. A good example of a cover like this was recently sold on ebay. The entire front and back were covered with 58 copies of the same stamp and every single one had been cancelled. See listing:

http://www.ebay.de/itm/ws/eBayISAPI...p=true&rt=nc

While this cover is from 1922 - well before things got out of hand - I've never seen a cover from the worst period (towards the end of 1923) that has uncancelled stamps. Post office personnel were still cancelling all the stamps, most of the time individually.

Talking about scrupulous...
Funny comment in that ebay offer: "Der Erbsenzähler sollte hier NICHT bieten!!" - bean counters need not bid.
Meaning: the envelope has more than 58 stamps, yet because they would not fit properly, the seller only counted
the whole stamps. There may have been one or 2 that would not satisfy a bean counter. FUNNY!

This also shows. if you want to be sure that a stamp is properly cancelled, get it on an
envelope. But, even those are forged, but the expert can tell more easily...

Scott doesn't assign much value to these used. Little more than mint. Value doesn't warrant certification. On the reverse of most of these paper remains from the original cover. Still, I have no idea if the cancels are genuine and wonder if there are any online references of forged cancels for these issues. Has anyone come across any?

It takes years to build a reference collection of all the different cancels used during the correct period of time ,because you have to have a collection of all the different cancels used after the inflation period because many of the difficult stamps were canceled years later .

It is also the shade of canceling ink that is a factor and any page on the internet would be a problem . Very few collectors want to take the challenge to learn the proper cancelations of the inflation period .

floortrader

Thank you. This area is certainly problematic for all the reasons you've listed. Safe to say finding one on cover would probably be ideal as it would offer the greatest opportunity to prove genuine usage.

gettinold - the cancels on your stamps look okay. Here is a reference for German cancels:

https://www.stampsx.com/ratgeber/st...atenbank.php

Most of the inflation era stamps are worth more used than mint. This is because postage rates changed 16 times in 1923, 6 of them in the last month, November 1923. So while millions of stamps were issued there was not much opportunity to use them before their value was so low as to be worthless. And most people were concerned about buying bread rather than mailing a letter.

gmims - mint or unused stamps with side selvage have no premium in Michel. Used with side selvage has a minimum value of 10 euros. The selvage needs to have some printing on it; blank selvage doesn't count.

For those who are interested in specializing in Inflation Germany stamps a Specialized Michel is indispensable. And specialized literature beyond the Michel catalog is also available.

The Michel Deutschland-Spezial catalog tells you that the values given for used inflation period stamps are only for those stamps signed by a BPP expertiser in Germany.

You cannot "self expertise" these stamps. Scott is not useful for anything other than as a paperweight as far as German stamps are concerned.

Here are some examples.