Attention: Germany Specialists

I found this stamp in a collection I bought and tore down last week, hinged in neatly with the rest of the set in the appropriate place:



1. Is this just a fancy cancel, or is it a Hitler Obliteration?
2. If the latter, have you ever seen one like this before?
3. Any idea where it is from?
4. What does the "D" stand for?

That is very interesting. Am not an expert,
but to me it looks like an obliteration.

I think the "D" stands for Dunkoff. But that's
not German, is it?

1. This is a local stamp as there are many different types, mainly from the Eastern part of Germany (Sachsen). It was made just after the war ended when stamps were needed, but the normal Hitler-definitives were not favoured, for obvious reasons. Most (98% I think) of the stamps you will find with handcancels like this, or FM or "Kreis Glauchau" etc. are forgeries.
2. yes
3. yes, this type is supposed to be from Löbau in Saxonia. If real, you have a rather unique stamp, because according to Michel it is only known on "Bedarfsbrief", that is on real correspondence from between 28 May to the end of June 1945. This is a fake because the overprint is on the wrong 12 pfennig (Mi 788 instead of Mi 827).
4. D stands for Dutschke, the local postoffice manager.

Jan-Simon,

So then it is an obliteration, because Hitler stamps were not favored, and not a cancel?

Now you have me on linguistic technicalities. I must check the exact meaning of the word obliteration to answer your question more precisely. It is not a cancel, as these stamps were sold with this 'overprint' (I use this word by lack of any better, and because this is technically what it is, even though it was done with a rubber handcancellers) and they exist in unused, mint condition as well as used on letters with datecancels. They are valued higher used.

Perhaps it was not a matter of favour, it could be that all nazi-related imagery was already forbidden in those days. Today, as far as I know, it is still illegal in Germany to show swastikas etc in other then a historical context.

Thank you Gentlemen for the interesting topic...i believe whatever it is that it has a place in perhaps the back of the book of a Germany collection...My Guatemala fake and forgeries which abound are a favorite part of my collection..i say its a keeper !

Jan-Simon, from your description it does sound like an obliteration, since to obliterate
is basically to destroy, as in this case Hitler's image. I guess you didn't mean
handcancels but that they were overprinted by hand.

It's also interesting that this took place in Soviet controlled East Germany.

I've seen a few of these, but I'm certainly not an expert. The word I would use is "deface."

Phil...Fantastic topic and a true learning experience, thanks
to Jan-Simon

I have copied Jan-Simon's post, and have added it to my German reference notebook.

WpgLwr...Thank you for starting this thread

When you take a rubber stamp and a stamp pad to place this "D" on each stamp manually, then that would not be printing, or would it still be called that way?

I think that defacing is perhaps a correct description. Obliteration makes me think that the stamp is destroyed or not useable anymore and the purpose was the opposite, to make the stamps useable again. Anyway, it is a bit of wordplay. I hope the story behind the stamps is clear.

Thank you all.

Even though it appears to be a fake, I'll keep it anyway in the back of the book as philb has suggested.

I was pretty sure it wasn't just a fancy cancel (like the one I posted in the "Favorite Christmas Stamp" thread, because the placement looks deliberate. It's also nice to know that the D doesn't stand just for "Deutschland", and that there is a bit of a story behind it.

It would be interesting to know who decided to forge these, and why they didn't bother using the right 12 pf. stamp.

Even more intersting would be to know where the former owner got it from.


*

Didn't the allies forge German stamps and money on
a huge scale, in order to undermine the economy?
That may be where it was forged... ???

Hopefully history will never give us another leader
that is so shameful we have to deface stamps and
delete symbols, by way of law, from our society.

It's amazing just how much history is "hidden" in philatelic related materials. It's a large part of what makes collecting fun.

I think that is a story that has become bigger and bigger each time it has been told. It is true that certain stamps (Hitler-definitives) were forged by the British and the Americans, but these stamps were meant to be used on propaganda cards that were supposedly sent from the front back home, with demoralizing stories. These cards and letters were then dropped by airplanes over Germany and Austria.
The most famous war forgery, the "Futsches Reich" stamp, where hitler's head was replaced by a skull, is only known unused, so it can not have undermined the economy much.

This particular stamp is simply an easy way to make money from naive stamp collectors. You take a 5 cent stamp, place a fake overprint or cancel on it and it suddenly turns into a stamp worth several thousands of euros or dollars. Very tempting and you will always find a few suckers, eh... collectors who think that 10 dollars for such a special stamp is a bargain...
And often the forgers are not very knowledgeable with the material, so you get forged overprints on the wrong stamps, or stamps that were not overprinted or overprints that were used on Russian stamps suddenly appear on German stamps etc. And you always have more 'errors' than could be expected: upside-down, double overprints... the forgers often make it too good to be true, and that is exactly the case ofcourse (it is not true).
It makes an interesting side-collection, but I would not spend too much money on it.

Jan-Simon

To revive an oldie, I have just received these from a buddy of mine, and thought they would look nice here on this 'antique' thread !









Londonbus1....also a bit of a fake !

VERY nice, LB1!! Great way to revive an old thread!

No wonder I can't finish moving my office!

k