Penny Red Identification Help

Hello, I have two penny reds. One of them (stamp B) is rather easy to identify as it is labeled plate 129 in my opinion.

The other(stamp A) seems to predate the plate numbering margin system. I've spent some time trying to identify on my own.

I have noted these characteristics, but I'm not qualified to make any real determinations. I'll refer to it as stamp A from here on.

- Both have large crowns although the one in need of identification has a somewhat odd looking crown

Stamp A has:
- no maltese cross cancellation
- perforated with stars = SG16-42
- perforated 14
- blue paper
- 2/3rds frameline break
- #44 cancellation
- Die 1 print type
- very poorly placed corner letters
- Not sure alphabet I,II,III

Anyway, those are the distinct characteristics I could manage to identify, but I'm still confused as to how to I can get more specific without comparing actual plates side by side.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

Hi Goon [nice name !]

First of all let me say that the two copies are not in the best condition, so keep a look out for better ones.

I am not an expert so stand corrected.
From the photo [a clearer scan would have been better] I would say, by process of elimination, that you have a SG22 [1st Jan 1855]. No Scott equivalent, sorry.
It looks like a Die I and if you say it's perf14 then it appears to be as I suggested.
The cancel looks like 144 which is Bromley Shortlands, Kent.
All issues from SG17-35 are on blued paper.
poorly centred and very dirty/toned.

Hope this helps.

Londonbus1

Haha thanks.

Thanks for the help as well.

I'm not sure about perforation. I need to double check it.

I'll have to look into the data you've given me. They are part of a collection I got from my grandfather. I'm going through it. Looking for anything of value, and sorting it out. It has 2000+ stamps various countries ranging from late 1800s to early/mid 1900s. It's been fun. Especially, learning about the Penn Reds. I spent all night educating myself on their nuances.

Here is a better photo. Lighting could be better though.

You have done some nice research on your stamps. I would just like to add that you need to check the watermark again as an S.G.#22 should have a Small Crown watermark.
From what you have listed in the A stamp characteristics..
1. Large Crown
2. Blued paper
3. Die 1
4. Perf 14
I cannot find a listing for a stamp with ALL those characteristics. As a rule of thumb it can be said that all Die 1 stamps have small crown watermarks.

edit: just had another look at your FK stamp and it is DIE 2