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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
5821 Posts
Posted 02/27/2014   8:50 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add lithograving to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Thanks Glenn for this link to the USPS site about the Inverted
Jenny sheetlet.
http://uspsstamps.com/stories/inverted-jenny

A roll of printed stamp sheets emerges from the four-color intaglio press inside Sennett's
high-security printing facility.




Sennett Security Products is the printer but
usually they subcontract to Banknote Corporation of America
to do the actual printing.Not sure in this case.

Why doesn't the USPS just contract out direct to BCA?

Does anyone know who the press manufacturer is?

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Pillar Of The Community
United States
8956 Posts
Posted 02/27/2014   9:17 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Petert4522 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Very interesting write-up. I especially like the last paragraphs about the craftsmanship of the sheetlets. They must have gotten a better quality sheet than mine!

Peter
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Bedrock Of The Community
United States
12128 Posts
Posted 02/27/2014   9:36 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wt1 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Does anyone know who the press manufacturer is?


A Goebel 670 Offset Press (according to the Postal Bulletin for the stamp issue). Actually if you look up Goebel you will see that their presses are used in manufacturing a number of US stamp issues.
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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
5821 Posts
Posted 02/27/2014   9:37 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lithograving to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hi Peter

I don't have any of the sheets myself to judge but I have read
a few times now about poor quality printing.

Are yours off center or are there areas where the engraving is
not sharp ?
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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
5821 Posts
Posted 02/27/2014   9:49 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lithograving to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks wt1.
Which Postal Bulletin Issue is that information in ?

Surprised it would be a Goebel 670 Offset Press
since the stamps were printed recess engraving.

The rest of the sheet was probably offset.

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Edited by lithograving - 02/27/2014 9:59 pm
Pillar Of The Community
United States
8956 Posts
Posted 02/27/2014   10:31 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Petert4522 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Lithographing, the one sheet I have found at a post office away from my area was poorly done in my opinion. The airplane is centered. I believe that the engraving seems OK. But the printing is poor compared to about ten used examples I have. The main gripe on my sheet is that the outer border bleeds like crazy. The cloud behind the plane is red on the bottom ( three or four lines up ), but the worst part is the blue of the cloud is all the way up into the red frame, even into the triangle on the left side. I can also see short lines sticking out of the frames around the stamps.
At the same time I purchased a $5.00 Wave of Color ( the only one in stock! ), and there is no comparison. Most folks don't seem to like the Waves, but at least they were printed much better!

Peter
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Bedrock Of The Community
United States
12128 Posts
Posted 02/27/2014   11:56 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wt1 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Here's the link to the specs on the Inverted Jenny issue. The detail on the printing method is in the grid toward the bottom of the link:

http://about.usps.com/postal-bullet...info_003.htm

Actually, the printing method is intaglio/offset, but when looking at the Goebel 670 press, it is often referred to as "offset". I'm not in the printing business, so perhaps others can clarify that point.
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Valued Member
United Kingdom
313 Posts
Posted 02/28/2014   03:36 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add 65170 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
When BCA print a "combination printing" issue (offset*/intaglio) the intaglio part is often done by a second pass through an Epikos 5009 press after the offset has been laid down.

However, in the case of the Jenny sheet this is shown by USPS in its own publicity as printed by BCA (not Sennett**, with whom the contract to print was probably placed) on the "Goebels 670 offset press, Phoenix". The latter is almost certainly the "Phoenix IV*** web intaglio press". It has nothing to do with a place in Arizona. The USPS Bulletin therefore correctly states both the offset and the intaglio presses that were used to print the sheets.

*Offset has now virtually taken over as the word used to describe lithography, a form of shorthand if you will.

** Sennett owns BCA, so they decide who to give the job to internally within the SSP Group. The same thing happens in Britain - Royal Mail may decide to place a print job with International Security Printers (ISP), who then decide whether to give the work internally to Walsall Security Printers [GB] or Cartor Security Printing [FR], based on required process, volumes, timings, finishing, etc.

*** The Phoenix IV is a four colour intaglio printing press. It was the first intaglio printing press produced by Cattaneo Meccanica with the intention to offer to the market a machine that could guarantee high quality and, at the same time, versatility of use.

Quote: "Why doesn't the USPS just contract out direct to BCA?" Because it's all about managing relationships - the less the better so far as USPS goes. Same in Britain. SSP have the required facilities within their group to print virtually any format requested, as does ISP [GB], or can sub-contract if needs be.

Hope this clarifies the confusion. GLENN
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Edited by 65170 - 02/28/2014 03:46 am
Pillar Of The Community
Canada
5821 Posts
Posted 02/28/2014   11:15 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lithograving to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Peter,

Any chance you could put up a good scan of your sheet and
maybe a close up of one of the stamps?
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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
5821 Posts
Posted 02/28/2014   11:21 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lithograving to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
wt1, thanks for the direct link.
I had the USPS archive site bookmarked but I couldn't
find which issue had all the details.

https://about.usps.com/postal-bulletin/pb2013.htm
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Bedrock Of The Community
United States
12128 Posts
Posted 02/28/2014   12:20 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wt1 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I agree the printing was quite poor for an issue of such philatelic significance. Here's my example highlighting the areas in the UR corner where the ink bleed is evident. Adding insult to injury, the stamp is off-center and the blue has bled into the red toward the top of the stamp:

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Pillar Of The Community
Canada
5821 Posts
Posted 02/28/2014   12:33 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lithograving to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Glenn,as you say


Quote:
The USPS Bulletin therefore correctly states both the offset and the intaglio presses that were used to print the sheets.


I understand that. But from the caption above the pic of the
press it makes it seem that this one particular 4 colour intaglio press printed the whole thing in one pass.

Isn't that the Goebel press printing the offset portion of
the souvenir sheets after the engraving was already done prior
on the Phoenix IV ?

As I mentioned before I haven't seen the sheet so I don't even know
which part was done offset.

In the Postal Bulletin the colours are given:


Quote:
PMS 7401 (Yellow), Intaglio Red, Intaglio Dark Blue, Intaglio Light Blue


Pantone PMS 7401 is a very light shade of yellow.
Was this the offset colour used?
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Bedrock Of The Community
United States
12128 Posts
Posted 02/28/2014   12:58 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wt1 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
This might help to explain it further. The caption under the photo of the "press" suggests it is, in fact, a four-color intaglio press:

http://uspsstamps.com/stories/inverted-jenny

Here's a curious thought: I wonder if the so-called use of an offset press might relate specifically to the black text explaining the issue as it appears on the reverse of the souvenir sheet?
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Edited by wt1 - 02/28/2014 1:03 pm
Pillar Of The Community
Canada
5821 Posts
Posted 02/28/2014   4:17 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add lithograving to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Quoting from the page:


Quote:
They rendered three of the stamp's four colors via the centuries-old method of intaglio printing.


Therefore the light yellow offset is printed on to give the stamps
the appearance of what stamp paper looked like 100 years ago before
paper manufacturing used fluorescent whitening agents.

I don't understand why the vignette would be off center vis a vis
the frame since multicolour engraved stamps are nowadays
printed by way of one engraving plate in one pass using the Giori process
which would account for the "bleeding" of the red into the blue.

I don't know why they used two blue intaglio colours.
The original stamp was bi-coloured , carmine red and blue.

From what I've seen of these stamps (pics only) the quality
would have been way better if the BEP were still printing US stamps.

The USPS stopped using the BEP to save a few bucks by using
private contractors.
Did that make a difference one way or the other to the
bottom line?
Especially now that it's loosing billions every year.



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Bedrock Of The Community
United States
12128 Posts
Posted 02/28/2014   4:23 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wt1 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
I don't know why they used two blue intaglio colours.


I believe one shade of blue was used for the stamps; the other for the "souvenir sheet" part of the issue.


Quote:
The USPS stopped using the BEP to save a few bucks by using
private contractors.
Did that make a difference one way or the other to the
bottom line?


This is old (dates back to 1989), but it is always an interesting re-read as to why the USPS migrated from the Bureau of Engraving and Printing to private printing contractors for new US Stamp issues:

http://www.gao.gov/assets/220/211880.pdf
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Edited by wt1 - 02/28/2014 4:31 pm
Pillar Of The Community
United States
4087 Posts
Posted 02/28/2014   9:39 pm  Show Profile Check eyeonwall's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add eyeonwall to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
From the photo of the printing web, one can see that a true press sheet is 18 panes, while what they offered as press sheets was only 6 panes.
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