Stamped Envelopes

I did something today that I have not previously even thought of doing and that was to start cataloging my Stamped envelopes, what a mistake.... These could be the most confusing area in Scott US specialized. lets start with these.

Scott lists like 43 different dies which I can't for the life of me see anyone being able to tell the exact difference. First off, are these even the same design ? obviously they are different dies if they are the same design. I could also be way off...

Confused group 2

The first set are from the Mercantile series (Scott type U90).

Die 7, 3, and 1 is my guess (would like to measure a few things).

Second group are from the circular die series (Scott U93)

Really need to measure the heads first (from tip of nose to nape of neck).

2nd one has a nice die pinch crease.

Thanks Thomas. Scotts only lists the U90 in 1¢ (Green) and 4¢ (Black), that being said I use a 2009 Scott specialized. Also, which measurements should I take on the first set ? I will measure the 2nd group as well. Is the first set U91 ? I see Die 7 is somewhat scarce ?

Yes, U91 is correct. What's the philatelic corollary to "measure twice, cut once"?

Always good to provide envelope size, knife (at least hi-back or lo-back), and watermark. Wove v laid paper, too.

Ok, here goes.

First cover is WM 17, size is 5-7/8" W X 3-7/8" Tall. Don't know the paper type but there are diagonal lines.



2nd Cover is WM 15, size is 6-5/8 " W X 3½" Tall, again all I know are the diagonal lines.



3rd cover is WM 18, size is 6-5/8" W X 3½ " Tall, same diagonal lines.



2nd group coming.

2nd group;

Cover 1 is WM 25, tip of nose to nape of neck is 7mm, cover size is 6/¾" W X 3¾" tall. I do not see the diagonal lines like in the first group.



2nd cover;

Cover 2 is WM 26 (Pretty sure) tip of nose to nape is 7mm, cover size is 6-5/8" W X 3½" Tall, again, do not see the diagonal lines



Cover 3

Cover 3 WM = 20 or 23, can't make out the last digit. Tip of nose to nape = 7mm, Cover is 6-5/8" W X 3¾" tall, again no diagonal lines

I'm having trouble with your numbers. Can't seem to get clear matches on envelope sizes. It would help if you did envelope size measurements in mm.

On the circs, your choices for head size are 8 3/4, 9, 9 1/4, and 9 1/2.

Either show scan of back or tell us high back or low back.

(Almost exclusively wove paper from circs onward.)

Head measuring:

Yes, the identification guides in the Scott catalog is mediocre. The UPSS envelope catalogs provide far superior identification information. Both the 19th century and the 20th century catalogs are available for purchase at upss.org. Detailed information on the circular dies is available in my book A Collector's Guide to the Circular Dies, also available on upss.org.

Circulars;

1st cover - Nose to neck 9mm
2nd cover - Nose to neck 9-1/4 mm
3rd cover - Nose to neck 9½ mm

Cover sizes in MM (Circulars)
1 - 172mm wide X 95mm tall
2 - 160mm wide X 89mm tall
3 - 161mm wide X 89mm tall

1st group cover sizes in MM

1 - 149mm wide X 86mm tall
2 - 161mm wide X 90mm tall
3 - 160mm wide X 89mm tall

Ok, we're making progress.

Circs:

1. Size 13. Looks like only knife 78 is available for the other parameters identified. But, that leaves either regular or extra quality paper (i.e., two different UPSS numbers, depending).

2. Size 10. Still need to see the knife to nail this one down to the UPSS number.

3. Size 10. I might ask you to re-measure the head. Can we see the knife (scan of reverse with top flap open)?

Mercs:

1. Size 8. UPSS #?? Size 8 not known laid for Die 7 (UPSS 121). If really Die 7, then need to have validated as possible new addition to catalog.

2. Size 10. This is a test. Should be UPSS # 1693-15 based on other parameters. That would mean K57. Is it a hi-back envelope?

3. Size 10. Two possible UPSS #'s, depending on knife.

I do not mean to confuse all parties involved, but this is interesting. I have a question though.
I do not see a single postmark. Are all these envelopes unused? Especially the one addressed by typewriter to a Mr. Parks in New Haven; is it unused also?

Peter

Is this what you need ? And after further review the measurement from nose to neck appears to be 9mm.

Knife 59. Baselines of the 2's level. So, Die 1.

Head measurements were sort of red herrings. What do you use to measure the heads?