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Is It Real? Graf Zep Cover

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Pillar Of The Community
United States
2941 Posts
Posted 02/15/2015   6:01 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add stampcrow to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
The postmarks and dates line up correctly for this postcard to be the first leg of the Grafs around the world flight.

My problem is, it's not addressed to anyone.

What am I missing here?
There is an extra postmark that reads Bremen, so I assume that was the final destination of this postcard. But to whom?
Any thoughts?



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Valued Member
United States
257 Posts
Posted 02/15/2015   6:26 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add JessEm to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Cool postcard.

Could it have been canceled in person as a collector/souvenir?

I see the Air Mail stamp is OVER the cancel. Could this be a clue?

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Pillar Of The Community
United States
2941 Posts
Posted 02/15/2015   6:47 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stampcrow to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
JessEm, I think that may be telling. I don't have the card in hand yet, so I'm working off the pics. The Cachet is on top of the 15cent stamp and the 25center. But I can't tell if the purple is over the black New York cancel. The friedrichshafen postmark appears to be over top the purple. The Bremen is just floating there with no apparent purpose...
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1589 Posts
Posted 02/15/2015   8:18 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add blcjr to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Maybe this will help:


It hurts that the US postmark is unreadable.
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1589 Posts
Posted 02/15/2015   8:30 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add blcjr to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I have no prior experience with these, and I could be wrong, but as I read what I just posted, the "final destination" was the starting point. So for US covers, they left Lakehurst, NJ on August 8 -- and I surmise that is what the postmark on the 15 cent US airmail stamp says -- and returned to Lakehurst, NJ on August 29. Unfortunately, there does not seem to be a backstamp documenting the actual arrival. Without that, to answer your question, it is only "half real."
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Pillar Of The Community
6328 Posts
Posted 02/15/2015   9:13 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
The card was mailed into a PO box at New York where only some of the 53 cents of postage was canceled with the machine cancel and then the remainder with the 3 ovals, It went to Lakehurst (where it got the large round purple dispatch cachet) to catch to flight to Friedrichshafen Germany, where it was deliverd at Bremen 2 days later, which is as far as it went. Very likely to find evidence of an erased pencil address.

The catalog scan has a typo, the card rate is 53, not 35 cents.

I wonder if the airmail etiquette label covers a NY registry marking applied in error, and that the PO clerk who canceled the stamps missed by the machine originally thought this was a registered card before realizing it was intended for the flight, and covered the error.
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Edited by John Becker - 02/15/2015 9:33 pm
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1589 Posts
Posted 02/15/2015   10:40 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add blcjr to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
John,

Impressive. How did you determine that it was mailed in NY? Could you read the postmark? And how did you know the correct rate was 53 cents? Do you have another source besides the AAMS catalog?

Finally, how did covers get back to the US? Would the person who franked and posted it expect to get it back somehow? I've often wondered the same about other early "flown covers" in the days before flight and FDC covers began to be cancelled and handed back or "serviced" by dealers. Say, for instance, Lindbergh covers flown to the Caribbean or SA.

Basil
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Pillar Of The Community
6328 Posts
Posted 02/15/2015   10:54 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add John Becker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
New York: The third post in the thread says it is, confirmed by the oval at the bottom right which starts NEW Y before fading out and the small bit of cancel under the airmail etiquette label says YORK.

Rate: corresponds to the rate listed by Wawrukiewicz & Beecher's international Rates book, table on Zeppelins.

Return: any time in the last 80+ years. Each cover would have its own story of how it got back or was never intended to. No evidence either way that I can see on this card.
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Edited by John Becker - 02/15/2015 11:02 pm
Pillar Of The Community
United States
2941 Posts
Posted 02/15/2015   11:15 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stampcrow to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
You know I think the machine cancel is Varick Sta NY. Hopefully when I receive it the date is readable.

So it sounds like it's a card that could have traveled, what would be considered, the first leg of the trip.

Thanks folks. I will follow up when it arrives.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
2941 Posts
Posted 02/22/2015   7:53 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stampcrow to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Sure enough the machine cancel is Varick Sta. NY. I believe John Becker is correct. This was carried on the "first" leg of the world flight. With the ultimate destination of Bremen. There is a line of random purplish dotes on the photo side. One even looks like a coma. But there is no damage to the paper in that area. Hard to imagine ink being removed without leaving some sign.
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1589 Posts
Posted 02/22/2015   8:20 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add blcjr to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
This was carried on the "first" leg of the world flight.
Unless you were German, and then it wasn't even part of the round the world trip; it was just to return to Friedrichshafen to refuel, and then the trip began from there. But from the American perspective--and Americans financed the venture--it was the first leg.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
2941 Posts
Posted 02/22/2015   8:44 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stampcrow to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
blcjr, isn't that something. I guess, wherever Hearst got on and off lol.
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Pillar Of The Community
1211 Posts
Posted 02/24/2015   02:05 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Kimo to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
My guess is that the address is the round rubber stamp marking in the bottom left corner that is unfortunately covered by an air mail etiquette. Some of the bigger stamp dealers of the day had mailing address rubber stamps made up to resemble postmarks or cachets and this could be one of those. From what little I can see that is not covered up the wording at the top could be a name, perhaps Charles W????? and the wording at the bottom might be New York ???? It is possible that either the dealer who prepared this card, or perhaps more likely a later owner of the card decided to make it prettier and cover up the dealer's address with an air mail etiquette? It is unfortunate as it is a detraction from an otherwise very nice card.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
2941 Posts
Posted 02/24/2015   9:26 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stampcrow to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Wow! I think you're right Kimo. I was thinking that was a New York foreign mail hand stamp, or something along those lines.
Ohhh man, it's hard to not pick at that sticker...
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Pillar Of The Community
1211 Posts
Posted 02/25/2015   6:18 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Kimo to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I see that etiquette as something unfortunate and not belonging on the card, but there is no way I know of to remove it safely without having the potential for damaging the card. Maybe there is a way that some expert would know, but I do not know it since it would be likely that glue from the etiquette has migrated into the paper of the card, and/or there could be some bleaching by light to the overall card that would not have happened underneath the etiquette so even if it could be perfectly removed there would likely be a 'suntan' line where it had been. I would just leave it as is and enjoy the very nice flight card for what it is.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
2941 Posts
Posted 02/25/2015   6:36 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stampcrow to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Kimo, that is wise. Shame someone thought that sticker looks better than the circular rubber stamp. The price was decent, and I'm glad to have it. Would be nice if I can find the Tokyo leg of the journey and feel the same way.
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