That Killer App

Hi adcaplan,

You can not store Images in MS Access as such(some you can but),
the main reason is Acccess will bloat and go over 2G. Limit for Access database. You store in separate folder as images, photos etc.
so access database will be within 2G limit.

tikithindi

I am reading this with great interest. it remind me of 1980 to 1993
when there was discussion regarding Universal Stamp Number as
open source. IT fell around after these years. Though
There is one by International postal union. and one by
Wikipedia you find for numbering system.

Although in many aspect of this TKA two are obvious.
1. Database and 2. Interface program

Open source RDBMS MySQL is best. Interfacing Program
can be written in Dot net,JAva,php or any one or combination of
languages.

Stamp ((Object blue print), Object, Property and method..

It is the Images of stamp is the most time consuming.
I can say I uploaded images of India Postage yearly issued.
from 1947 to 1997 in 2 days. at Stampsofworld at UK site.
There is also a section in Wikipedia also world stamps.

tikithindi.

tikithindi,
Right, that is why I had to do what I did. I have over 10,000 images of my collection. I wish Access had a way to hyperlink, but I couldn't figure it out. My solution works for me, and I can quickly create both want lists and inventory lists, either for the collection as a whole, or just parts. I can click a few boxes and get a list of all revenues I have mint, or which ones are missing. I can also browse item by item. It was not that difficult to code, but it has become very useful.

adcaplan...Will this help

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5ZOOMrDjtU

Thank you, adcaplan, for keeping your eye on my ball.

Yes, my intent was a very open-ended discussion of TKAs.

My original title for this thread was Don's Killer App, a hat tip to ...

https://goscf.com/t/42254 Will stamp collecting survive?

... wherein there was some discussion of the value of digital tools, without a concerted effort to define those tools.

https://goscf.com/t/42254&whichpage=5#361231 = my teaser, which became the seed for this thread

So far, to keep it short, we've talked about 1) stamp identification, and 2) collection databases.

Q/ Anybody got another idea for That Killer App?

I've wondered about the systematic collection of auction prices realized.

I would only want prices from curated auctions, eg, ABE (Anybody But ebay), to keep the misidentification/etc down to a dull roar.

One problem is that, once you get past the modest stuff, the prices begin to reflect the individual lot, and the individual lots vary quite a bit: eg, 'stamp A on a cover with stamp B' gets listed twice, once for stamp A and once for stamp B, with a price that cannot be easily divided between the two.

If you restrict the auction prices realized to single stamps, off cover, etc, you get some price trends .. but what would most of us do with price trend information?

Q/ Would price trending data be That Killer App? What goes in? What stays out?

Cheers,

/s/ ikeyPikey

hi adcaplan,

One can Make use of Image Control and filename, different way, in
Access keeping eye that you do not want to bloat Database.

In free tutorial there are good tips and explanations to make these
thing work. It would be appropriate to make separate table for
filenames of images and make relation with Required Db fields and
utilize that on form or reports. Hard coded file name are not going to be helpful except one self.
See my Recipe Database (in Making ) screen shots.





tiktihindi

hi ikeyPikey,

Some thought of mine as follow.
1. Collection of Stamp Images
2. Database with Required Information of Issues
3. finding would be with Country and year wise if one can not
figure out coutry than seperate

4. Identifying way may be appropriate net link or created
Database it self to hint what possible country it belongs

5. Mysql as Open source Database (RDBMS) good if one wants to
take advantage of SQL Express and Visual Studio Express , one can
Utilize Both are free.
6. If collective effort done than it is deffinately posible to
make this work.

Wiki or wikipedia type arrangement in my opinion is good approach.
as many know I will attach one of my Db (in Progress) show screen.



tikithindi

Our discussion for the killer app has been limited to stamps. A few years ago I started a thread over in VSC and started promoting a broader killer app. Why stop at stamps? The idea was to build a distributed philatelic relational database that would support every piece, every kind, of philatelic information via metadata.

This would be a kind of "Dewey Decimal" system of philatelic information through the use of metadata. Every philatelic information type would be supported with a unique ID number and be indexed via a standardize specification. Doing this would then allow ALL philatelic databases to be 'tied' together and perform as a huge, world-wide resource to be queried.

Philatelic images, articles, books, web sites, blogs, forums, etc. would all be able to be added to the database using the metadata specification. Existing efforts would easily be added without disrupting the existing work by the use of custom queries. Security would also be straight forward with each database exposing only what they wanted to make public.

I actually moved forward and developed the basic spec for this effort but failed to generate much support for it. So I pressed forward again and actually developed an SQL database and a web front end for data entry. I began population the database to illustrate just how powerful this killer app would be if adopted. I was surprised to find that it was met with a lot of resistance. A few perceived it as a threat to their ability to make a living selling philatelic books and articles. A few accused me of having selfish motives and wanting to place myself in some position of power in the hobby. With the help of a handful of others, I reached out to some of the most powerful and influential people in the hobby. It fell on deaf ears. I was also told that I failed to describe this app to folks who were not as technically proficient as others.

I went ahead and accepted this but this was not true. I had worked very hard in developing the specification/database/web site (called PIN for Philatelic Information Network) so others could come up to speed. It included diagrams and a very detailed explanation of the effort. When folks said that I was not adequately communicating the idea I directed them to the specific pages on the site. What I found (via use of the web server log files) was that the either lied by saying they read it when they had not or had only spent 10-20 seconds on any page. In other words, plenty of people had opinions and loved shooting holes in the ideas in the forum but few bothered to spend the time learning how and why it would work. (The term metadata apparently confuses a lot of people.)

I came away thinking that philately is full of opinionated folks who don't like change. Upon further thought I slowly realized it was more than this. Philately has been built on holding a lot of information tightly to ones chest. Those folks who had the most information were the one who were most likely to profit. The hobby had a strong history of building walls around information and restricting access to it. What I was proposing was a threat to the traditional way of doing things.

So why am I rambling on about this effort? Well, there are lessons learned. Any killer app effort will be met with a lot of resistance and Negative Nancys. It will need a strong, thick skinned personality to head it up and they will need to expect a long, hard road. They will go it alone, forget about getting an support from any major organization which sees this stuff as threats to the traditional ways of generating income and memberships. Expect many years of struggle before seeing any progress in the attitudes of the hobby. Be wary of people who form, and publish, opinions without bothering to learn anything new; look beyond the surface for their actual agendas.
Don

So, Michael, are you ready for that long, hard road, coonskin cap on head and tomahawk in hand? Songs about you will be sung one hundred years hence.

One element that might, perhaps, be eschewed is the inclusion of auction prices. For the great majority of stamps, collectors and auctioneers have a good working idea of values - around 10% of CV, rising for less common items, with CV+ for the truly rare and in-demand. The question of other items - covers etc - is somewhat more complex. Conversely, and talking myself out of that suggtion, I can see that, for casual viewers, the price will be the thing about the application that most appeals.

Geoff

Hi Don,

Long ago I had read and to some extent I think was Lib of congress
Classification when in early 90's I was describing For Web and database in INDIA for a School. But your I idea is great and
feasible. That classification is in use in whole over world.
I think Every Librarian should be knowing. I agree many of your
narrations. But I will tell you I do not know your full efforts.
Probably during those period I was not here or never came to net
as was busy with my profession. Computer and related things are
my hobbies.
But I think in these techo time this is definitely possible.

tiktihindi

Don,


I sympathize and to some extent know what you have been through. Many people/companies/organizations are not interested in publicly disclosing information. I've experienced this first hand regarding forgery information.

Don't listen to the nay-sayers

My vision of TKA is not a piece of software per se, but more of a combination of hardware and software.

The hardware layer would be a portable handheld duplex scanner with a lid, about the size of mobile/tablet, where you could place any item. Be it just single stamp, minisheet, or cover, or maybe even coin or bill. The minute you press the button, it would instantly take a properly color profiled photo/scan of both front and back. And when done, transmit the collected raw data using Bluetooth/WiFi to a software/service expecting the data.

The software would be made of two pieces... The frontend would be nothing more than lightweight user interface/shell, where the user would simply specify the action that happens at the backend.

The real magic would happen at the backend. To make the software development and distribution easy, this should be located online (meaning SaaS). The backend would do stuff like...

It would process the raw image data, identify real/accurate perforation, watermark, any text (using OCR), dimensions,...

It would identify the stamp and get catalog ID/value if requested. It would do the identification and discussion with Amos/Michel/SG servers. Every time you ask some catalog data, your account would be charged some credit (This kind of revenue split would make this an attractive option to publishers).

If you want to sell the item on Ebay/Delcampe, you'd basically just need to review the gathered data, set a price, and off it goes. Additionally, it could notify you when the item is sold, when you've received payment etc.... This could bring money in from eBay/Delcampe (after all, the software would be driving new sales for them).

If you want to buy similar item, then you could create a watch that would notify you if any of the auction sites (enrolled) is selling matching items.

If you just want to add it your inventory, then it could be stored with proper references either locally or on the cloud. And naturally there should be tools to browse, search, modify, share etc. the inventory.

And heck, it could even aggregate "stamp news" from places like this and notify every time there's something new / interesting. Again, it could include free and paid stuff (incorporating Don's vision of PIN into practice).

And...

So in nutshell... Just a tiny black gadget, about the size of tablet, a lightweight software/app sitting on your desktop/mobile, and a working network connection. Just place the item inside the gadget, close the lid, and let it work for You. Even a monkey should be able to use it. That's my vision of TKA.

That said, I acknowledge there are some issues with this; number one being the portable duplex scanner/camera with lid with optics good enough, and second on the list would be enrolling a licensing agreement with catalog publishers. The rest of this would be somewhat easy and trivial to achieve for anyone with proper skills.


-k-

Don,

I feel your pain regarding the hobby and its acceptance of technology.

I'm a member of quite a few philatelic organizations, study groups, etc. Many have little to no web presence. I've offered on numerous occasions to build and host websites for several of these groups, completely free of charge. I've even gone so far as to build examples to show what's possible, complete with membership-only areas, discussion forums, etc. My offers have been rejected every time without the decisionmakers even visiting the sample websites.

On occasion, my offers have even been met with hostility and all sorts of accusations that I'm trying to seize control or make a buck, despite the fact that (1) I have no desire to be in charge of anything -- this is my hobby, not my job, and (2) I've spent tens of thousands of hours (literally) coding software and webpages to aid the philatelic community without ever accepting or requesting a dime. No advertising, no donations, nothing.

There are just too many folks out there who are, as you say, hoarders of access and information, and who can't understand that for many of us, we do what we do out of our love of the hobby.

PostmasterGS...I know what you are feeling with that rejection...Keep trying..Your on the right path.
Robert

Yes, the state of digital tools in our hobby is abysmal at best. One of the most amazing things to me is the exceedingly small number of dealers with full-fledged online ordering - or even any web presence at all. There's no better way to increase sales than to have a good website with secure online ordering, and it's not that hard to build. It may be time consuming (though not difficult) to build initially, but after the initial build is done, it would take a minimal amount of upkeep to keep it up and running. Other than eBay/Bidstart et. al., the number of places one can order stamps online is exceedingly small. Anyone running a mail-order business in 2015 needs to have a presence on the web. Period.