Stamp Community Family of Web Sites
Thousands of stamps, consistently graded, competitively priced and hundreds of in-depth blog posts to read








Stamp Community Forum
 
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

This page may contain links that result in small commissions to keep this free site up and running.

Welcome Guest! Registering and/or logging in will remove the anchor (bottom) ads. It's Free!

Manuscript Markings On Covers

Next Page    
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.
Author Previous TopicReplies: 18 / Views: 3,615Next Topic
Page: of 2
Valued Member
United States
297 Posts
Posted 09/24/2015   09:55 am  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add Neeskens13 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
Just a general question for the community -- how do you feel about random (i.e., not related to the postal service's handling of that particular piece of mail) manuscript markings on covers? Do you think they detract from the overall beauty and value of the cover? Or do these markings become part of the cover's history? I am particularly interested in how people feel about notations regarding catalog numbers, pricing information, etc.
Send note to Staff

Moderator
Learn More...
United States
12330 Posts
Posted 09/24/2015   10:14 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Generally I don't like them written on the cover. They may contain incorrect information. I do agree that they may contain provenance which is important to me; but writing these kinds of notes is easily accomplished on a separate piece of paper inserted with or in the cover.
So what I do is leave previous markings alone but record it on a separate note, add any new information that I might research, and hope that whomever gets the cover next continues to add to the provenance.
Don
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
8956 Posts
Posted 09/24/2015   10:26 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Petert4522 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I fully agree with Don. Philatelic markings do not add a thing to covers, makes them less desirable to me!

Peter
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
United States
297 Posts
Posted 09/24/2015   10:27 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Neeskens13 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Thanks, Don. Just to be clear, I was referring to markings that are on the cover when purchased. Do these markings make you more or less likely to buy a particular item (particularly if the information written on the cover is incorrect)?

I would never write on a cover or the back of a stamp. I, too, write up each cover I obtain, print out the information on a 5.5 x 4.25 white matte card and stick it behind the cover in its Vario sheet pocket.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
2423 Posts
Posted 09/24/2015   11:44 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add KGB to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Shopping lists and whatnot on the back of a cover is kind of interesting.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
628 Posts
Posted 09/24/2015   11:59 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jim6092252 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
to me it would be like a cancel, if intersting might add to value but if its bad would take away
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
1851 Posts
Posted 09/24/2015   12:05 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add cjpalermo1964 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
If they were added to the cover long after use or delivery, it would definitely reduce value and attractiveness to me. If they are contemporaneous with sending, receiving, or storage right after receiving, then they can be very interesting and even add value.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
United States
297 Posts
Posted 09/24/2015   12:12 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Neeskens13 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
If they were added to the cover long after use or delivery, it would definitely reduce value and attractiveness to me.


There are the markings I'm referring to.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
1017 Posts
Posted 09/27/2015   04:07 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add billsey to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
They might be interesting when showing provenance, for instance IIRC Stanley Ashbrook put markings on covers he handled, and if the notes he provided could be shown to be from him...
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
1211 Posts
Posted 09/27/2015   2:17 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Kimo to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
If these kinds of notes put on there by stamp collectors to indicate the catalog numbers or such are in ink or heavily written pencil then I feel that they detract from the value. The same goes with ink stamped collector's initials or names or such to show they are owned by some stamp collector. If they are written very lightly in easily erased pencil then I do not think they detract from the value.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
1179 Posts
Posted 09/27/2015   6:05 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Hal to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
NOTHING should be written on a cover. I spend more time "cleaning" covers of collectors markings; most times collectors have permanently damaged a cover even using a pencil, because they have a "heavy" hand. Non-postal markings on covers (other than docketing info) ABSOLUTELY detract from the value. Stanley Ashbrook was a "legend in his own mind" and was a pompous philatelist who, if you didn't agree and worship his every utterance, would denounce you and your material in his newsletters with childish rants (just read his newsletters). Granted, he was extremely knowledgeable, but his markings on a cover do not in any way enhance its value.
Hal
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Valued Member
175 Posts
Posted 11/23/2015   12:50 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add cet_gg to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
While I agree, I don't want to see notes scribbled all over a cover, any more than I would a Picasso, there are some instances, writing on a cover other, than by the postal service, and sender, can be intriguing and, in some cases, add value.

I would prefer a collector keep their notes on a separate note card, because, as pointed out, they might be in error.

My comment about writing from other than the postal service, or sender, is based on a piece I am doing historical, and genealogical, research on, now. It is an airmail cover from Sweden to MA, USA. I have learned, from my research on this cover, airmail, in it's infancy, was sometimes signed by the pilot. I would hesitate to remove writing, before knowing who wrote it, because of that fact. I read aerophilatelists might place more value on that type cover, than others. I assume, though, it would also fall under the category of having been written on by the postal service, since the pilot was performing a postal duty. Until I figure out whose name, or what the writing is, on the front or back, I would not try to remove it. It may be the sender, it may be the pilot. I don't know yet. There is also a postal note of how much the letter weighed, though I only have the cover, not the contents.

I would not know this, or been inspired to look further, and do more research, if the recipient, I believe, had not written on the front 'By air over the Atlantic and from New York'. It is my understanding, from my mother, that when this cover was airmailed, it was a big thing, to some, to receive airmail, so that may be the motivation behind writing that on the front. That and the postmark is not long after the debacle of the 'airmail scandal', which I was totally ignorant of, but the writing on the cover, led me to learn about.

I also learned, the recipient was born in Sweden, and married a US citizen. This letter was sent in their senior years, her husband passing two years after the postmark. I imagine the trouble with the airmail system in the US, a few years prior, receiving it not long after World War II began in Europe, this letter was a letter from home that meant something, particularly it's route to her, which may be why she wrote that on it, if indeed, she is the one who wrote on the front cover.

Hence, my comment, writing on envelopes can be intriguing.

And amusing, as another person noted. I thought the back of envelopes was where everyone wrote their grocery lists, until cell phones came along, with the ability to keep one in it. That, and names and phone numbers, when someone called, as you were walking in the front door, with the groceries you purchased, based on the shopping list on the back of envelope, that is now in your purse, and you collected the current day's mail, it's in your other hand, as you walk in, and the phone is ringing. You drop your groceries, put the mail on the table next to the phone, pick up the receiver and are unprepared to write it down, when the person on the other end of the line says 'If you have a paper and pen handy, I'll give you my number, and you can call me back, when you have time to talk.' You flip over the first envelope on the top of the mail, reach in your purse for a pen, and viola... something interesting for KGB to see, and something Hal is going to have to remove.

Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
2423 Posts
Posted 11/23/2015   2:26 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add KGB to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
This reminds me; I need to buy milk and eggs...
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Pillar Of The Community
United States
6661 Posts
Posted 11/23/2015   10:48 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stallzer to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Or they can end up a philatelic vandalism like this.

Nice Great Britain to US 1887 cover that got taxed 10¢. The year should make the postage due a J19 which catalogs at $35.00 used let alone on an international cover. It also has a great squared circle strike, good auxiliary tax marking and a common but good usage 2½d QV on cover. The back has some maritime (Anchor emblem / seal) and because someone (My Grandmother) wrote catalog numbers all over it with an indelible marker it's basically worthless money wise.



Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by stallzer - 11/23/2015 10:50 pm
Pillar Of The Community
United States
2423 Posts
Posted 11/23/2015   11:17 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add KGB to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
stallzer, I'll give you a dollar for it. (Wink.)

Okay. Two dollars.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Edited by KGB - 11/23/2015 11:18 pm
Pillar Of The Community
1211 Posts
Posted 11/24/2015   02:18 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Kimo to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Sometimes manuscript markings can be applied by the recipient back in the day when they received the letter. Sometimes these can indicate the date received or the date the recipient responded, or in some cases when the letter is business related such as the sender buying something from the recipient they can be a list of what was sent back to the sender. In these cases I think that the non-postal manuscript markings can be a plus in terms of showing how the letter was being used or they can provide dates when the cancelation either does not include a year or when the cancelation is unreadable.
Send note to Staff  Go to Top of Page
Page: of 2 Previous TopicReplies: 18 / Views: 3,615Next Topic  
Next Page
 
To participate in the forum you must log in or register.

Go to Top of Page

Disclaimer: While a tremendous amount of effort goes into ensuring the accuracy of the information contained in this site, Stamp Community assumes no liability for errors. Copyright 2005 - 2026 Stamp Community Family - All rights reserved worldwide. Use of any images or content on this website without prior written permission of Stamp Community or the original lender is strictly prohibited.
Privacy Policy / Terms of Use    Advertise Here
Stamp Community Forum © 2007 - 2026 Stamp Community Forums
It took 0.24 seconds to lick this stamp. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.05