Indian States Indentification Help

I think these are from Jammu Kashmir. Beyond that I am lost. The two in the middle may be the same variety, but there are differences as well. I was hoping someone could help me precisely identify these. Thank you for your time

jol34, they are indeed from Jammu & Kashmir, but you'll need to look at the papers of these stamps.

Assuming the cheapest versions, they are
1: SG 128 - 2 Annas on thin wove of 1879 (2015 cat. value £6) (This is also known on medium and thick wove papers. However, yours has the look of the thin paper.)
2, 3: Both SG O7 - ½ Anna Officials on thin wove of 1880-1894 (cat. value 50p each).
This value was very heavily used, and repeatedly reprinted. The printers don't seem to have cared, as long as the product could be called 'black'. They're known on a variety of thin wove papers, from toned through to pure white.
(These are also known on thin laid paper - cat. £10 each.)
4: Forgery of the 8 Anna. (The genuine stamps can't have white margins around them.)

In addition, the 2 Anna value has been frequently forged as well. The best forgeries are slightly wrong in size, though. What is the height of your copy?

If you want to know more about these (fascinating) stamps, the best Web site for Jammu & Kashmir is http://www.kashmirstamps.com/index.html

Thank you Tonymaqg for your knowledge and information. The two anna is 23 mm in height.
I am keeping both 2 and 3 since 3 is much thinner than 2. Neither are Laid.
I have a lot of Indian state stamps which I am unsure of, is this a good place to post pictures?

Well, your 2 Annas stamp sounds OK: it's not one of the notorious Brighton forgeries. For a list of the papers, and the different values known, to be found on these Jammu & Kashmir, see the reprint of the book by Séfi & Mortimer on the kashmirstamps Web site. It's quite a complex area - beyond the what any of the catalogues show - but it can be a rewarding way to pass a wet day!

I'll be quite happy to help you identify any Indian States you have: though I warn you, the revenues are beyond me. I don't collect them, with one tiny exception.

But post up any problems you have. The paper type often makes a difference to the value of the stamps, as you've seen with Jammu & Kashmir. Once you get onto Poonch (ruled, incidentally, by a junior branch of the ruling family of Jammu & Kashmir)



you really will have to know your papers. (These are SG 50, by the way: the 1 Anna on blue-green wove bâtonné paper.)

Indian States. Love their stamps, do you have any other link for the forgeries? I suppose many of mine are.
And by the way thanks for the Kashmir link.

Yes, awesome link.

Regards,
Stampalotapus

The kashmirstamps Web site will tell you all you need to know about forgeries of Jammu & Kashmir. If you have any of the Circular types, the most common (and dangerous) are the so-called Missing Die types:



(Genuine on the right; 'Missing Die' on the left)

These are so called because, for many years after they appeared, they were thought to have come from missing dies. In fact, they were probably made by corrupt State postal officials, who made good imitations of the real things, and inserted them into the official supplies, thus doubling their money when they removed the genuine stamps.

Across the entire range of Indian States, the most common types of fakes are what are sometimes known as the Allahabad forgeries, from the town they originated in. They can fool you if you're not familiar with the originals - but once you've seen the real thing, they're obviously false.

Here are some examples from Alwar State:





and the real thing:



The Allahabad forger doesn't seem to have a perforating device, so a very easy test is: if the stamps should be perforated, but aren't, they're most likely Allahabad forgeries.

Another old ebay favourite is the 1921 1 Anna postal-fiscal of Charkhari State:



The give-away here is that - whatever their other shortcomings - the Charkhari printers at least knew how to spell POSTAGE:



In fact, Charkhari State has come in for far more than its fair share of forgeries. This type of large double-ring CDS on a Charkhari stamp



usually means forgery.

Also beware of any stamp (not just the Indian States, of course) worth more used than mint. This Jasdan stamp



is worth £38 mint, but £275 used (2015 catalogue values). The image was taken from a well-respected German auction catalogue of a few years ago. The stamp (and another similar) sold, despite having 'postmarks' of Bandikui in Jaipur State, a complete impossibility for a stamp from Jasdan.

There are a few - very few - rare forgeries of the Indian States. This Bundi 'Sacred Cow' 12 Anna



is one. To a specialist, it would be worth as much as a genuine stamp; (hint: the dimensions are wrong). The rare and valuable fakes are valuable because they're very, very rare. You're not likely to have one. The Jammu & Kashmir 'Missing Die' forgeries sell - when they do manage to sell at all - for a dollar or so each. Specialists in Jammu & Kashmir have them all already.

A good catalogue is vital. There's really only one choice, a Gibbons Part 1/Commonwealth & British Empire Stamps or an India sectional catalogue. A special word about the stampworld Web site, which I know many here use: don't. It's very poor on the Indian States, and will only mislead you. If you have any OK/fake questions about the Indian States, post them here, and I'll try to answer them for you.

Thanks Tonymacg, I really appreciate, I have aproximately 70 stamps and 4 covers from the classic period, but nothing really valuable from what I saw.
If you don't mind, I will scan them to see how many fakes I have.
The covers look good to me, but after seeing the forged covers on the site who knows.

I will start with 2 scans and 1 cover.

My second lot of 3 covers:

My third and last.

I hope I didn't abused on your offer to help. It almost feels like opening a Pandora box.
If you need a specific image let me know.

You certainly have some very interesting stuff there!

I'll take the scans one at a time.

In scan 1, the loose New Rectangulars (issues from 1878 onwards) look OK to me. The Brighton forgeries are very tricky because they were taken from genuine stamps. The kashmirstamps Web site will guide you on these, if you have any doubts. Even if you don't, it can be fun identifying the different types of thin wove paper used.

The cover of Kashmir SG 92 looks OK. The ink notations are probably by (Sir David) Masson; they're one of those rare occasions when the notations on a cover add to, rather than detract from, the value of a cover. Its value is a bit hard to determine, because prices are all over the place at the moment, but I'd think something more than $US50 for it.

The Circulars below the cover are all forgeries.

The Alwar stamps all look OK. The first ¼ and ½ Anna stamps can be highly specialised. Let me know if you'd like a link to an excellent site for them.

The Nawanagar again look OK; I can't be sure of the 'used' copy, because there isn't enough of the cancellation visible to be sure. The Bhor looks OK.

codex, what an exquisite collection! I hope very few stamps are false.

In scan 2, the Jind cover is a great rarity, if genuine. Feudatory State period Jind covers are exceptionally rare: they'll sell for £500 or more. First, though, I'd like to see the reverse side of the cover: it should have an Indian ½ Anna stamp, and the appropriate back stamps. This is my only Jind cover:




Again, with the Poonch cover, I'd like to see the other side. It should have a Kahuta British Indian transit CDS, and a British Indian ½ Anna stamp for postage. The cover appears to have a first type cancellation, like this



but your example is blurred. Poonch stamps and covers have been extensively forged, so a close-up of the stamp would help.

The Bundi cover appears to be of SG 2. However there seem to be altogether too many covers of Bundi SG 2 floating around at the moment. I suspect some, if not all, will turn out to be forgeries.

I'd certainly send your Jind cover in for a certificate: BPA Expertising is the only place to consider. With a clear BPA Certificate, your Jind cover is a very valuable item indeed!

Wow that is all good news, thanks a lot.
I am sending here the back of the 2 covers.
The jind is in poor state, and 1/4 of the back is missing (maybe where the stamp was?)

In your last scan, again you have a bit of a mixed bag.

Line 1: The Jind appear OK, although the perforated ½ Anna probably has a remainder cancellation.

Line 2: The Jind appear OK; the Indore appears OK, but I'm not sure of the cancellation - it is, in any case, the more common type; the Poonch 2 Annas is fake, but the other looks OK; the Bamra looks OK

Line 3: The Poonch and Dhar look OK; the Bamra also look OK, but the last ¼ Anna is probably faded

Line 4: The Jhalawar look OK, but I'm not sure of the cancellations. This is my cover of the first issue:



and the typical cancellations on the second issue:





Also on line 4, you have Bhopal SG 57a (inscribed 'SAH' not 'SHAH'; cat. in 2015 at £6), SG 55 and SG 76.

Line 5: The Bhopal is one the post-1904 reprints and imitations. Some of these did actual postal service (I have them on cover and piece), but as far as I know, your stamp didn't. The Bussahir is a straight-out reprint. The Charkhari are a fake and an SG 34.

Line 6: All the rest of the Charkhari look OK, but all are CTO. Postally used are much harder: