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Real People Using A Mailer's Postmark Permit

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Rest in Peace
United States
4052 Posts
Posted 11/08/2015   7:48 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add ikeyPikey to your friends list Get a Link to this Message

Time Warner Cable just sent us a pumpkin-themed Thank You Card in an envelope bearing Hallmark livery.

Sadly, they managed to garble the MPP zip code.

http://www.mppclub.org/Checklist.htm ... perhaps the MPPC CheckList would tell me what zip code to have expected, and who actually holds MPP 16838

I am quite certain that this is exactly the second time in two years that I have seen an MPP in 'ordinary' commercial use.

Q/ Does anyone else have any non-philatelic MPP mail to show?

Cheers,

/s/ ikeyPikey




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Pillar Of The Community
United States
2779 Posts
Posted 11/09/2015   08:43 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Battlestamps to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
At least they cared to send the very best.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
1179 Posts
Posted 11/10/2015   01:05 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Hal to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Another segment of "PRECANCEL" collecting.

attention MONITORS: I believe this should be moved to the PRECANCEL section - see CHASA.

Hal
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Edited by Hal - 11/10/2015 01:08 am
Pillar Of The Community
United States
2480 Posts
Posted 11/10/2015   10:44 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add tomiseksj to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Assuming the USPS "find a zip code" function is up to date, there are only 4 possibilities for the zip code: 24161 (Sandy Level, VA), 54161 (Pound, WI), 64161 (Kansas City, MO) and 94161 (San Francisco, CA).
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
8956 Posts
Posted 11/10/2015   11:20 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Petert4522 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Hal, in my humble opinion this has very little to do with precancel collecting. Yes, in this particular case a special stamp was used, but MPP users can use any stamp they wish. If they want to use a special stamp as in the case above they need not only a precancel permit but also a Mailers Postmark Permit.

Peter
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United States
1160 Posts
Posted 11/10/2015   11:22 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add PoStat4evR to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Since the permit # is so high, I would say SF or KC as the source and the "garbled number" looks like a downy one, so I would go with KC as the source.

I stopped using my MPP as the mail here all goes to the main sorting and cancelling machine which just gives it a messy look.(double cancel).
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Rest in Peace
United States
4052 Posts
Posted 11/10/2015   11:49 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add ikeyPikey to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
... I stopped using my MPP as the mail here all goes to the main sorting and cancelling machine ...


I would just leave the top inch of the envelope clear to receive the shpritzy marking, and place the stamps & their MPP cancel down one inch (safely out-of-the-way), but that's me.

Cheers,

/s/ ikeyPikey
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Posted 11/10/2015   1:54 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Petert4522 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Prostat4evR, I have a precancel permit, which is handled the same way as an MPP, or at least supposed to be that way.
When I hand my mail to a clerck, they usually toss it in with all the other stuff, and it goes to the district office where it does not get cancelled! Remember, precancelled stamps and non-profit stamps are untagged - the canceling machine does not recognize a stamp!
But when I tell the clerk that it needs to be cancelled, and when I can convince her that it is supposed to be done, it goes through without any problem AND without a second cancel!
Maybe your PO is handling it wrong?

Peter
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United States
8956 Posts
Posted 11/10/2015   2:06 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Petert4522 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
IkeyPikey, as for your question in the original post. Yes I have saved at least one MPP that is not philatelic. It was mailed in Nov. 2014 from Zip code 64199 (!) but the addressee was Douglasville GA 30135. The stamp used was a presort standard stamp with the picture of a snowflake. Cover is yours if you are interested and send me your address. By the way, I have not really gone through all my hundreds of modern covers; I may have more!

Peter
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Posted 11/10/2015   5:14 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Hal to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck-- it's a duck. Or in this case a "precancel." In this case the stamp has been, "cancelled PRIOR TO entry into the mail stream", which by definition is a "PRECANCELLED STAMP"; MPP collecting is a segment of precancel collecting. Dave Smith, foremost dealer in Precancels sells them as well as other Precancel Dealers. Oh, did I mention. I'm a member of the PSS. It's not that it is a main segment - but it is a segment of precancels.

Hal

P.S. By the way, any stamp can receive a town precancel. If you have a mailing permit to use precancel stamps you can request ANY stamp to be precancelled -- commemorative included -- to use under your mailing permit. Or if a collector, if you ask, you can request any stamps to be precancelled -- "favored cancelled" -- commemoratives included. It can be any stamp a Postal Clerk has in his cabinet.
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Edited by Hal - 11/10/2015 6:20 pm
Bedrock Of The Community
United States
12128 Posts
Posted 11/10/2015   7:41 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wt1 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Here's an example of regular definitive stamps (not precancels) being used with an MPP:

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Pillar Of The Community
United States
1160 Posts
Posted 11/11/2015   11:38 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add PoStat4evR to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
MPP's and Precancel Use Permit's are two different things.
A Precancel Use Permit allows one to use precancelled stamps as regular postage mixed with other standard postage items which makes up the current first class postal rate. It let's the PO know you aren't trying to pull one over on them. I have mailed such covers from different drop boxes (not the post office of issue) and they seem to go on their merry way, and yes they do go thru the main automated sorting equipment. The ONLY prerequisistion is that the amount of stamps MUST equal the current first class rate.
MPP's on the other hand, are vanity cancels. You, the holder of the permit, are allowed to hand cancel your own mail, but it must be turned into the post office of issue the day is shows on the cancel. Here in the Land of Enchantment, ALL of the outgoing mail goes through the central state sorting facility up the road. I have tried to have them put it aside in different stacks, differnet bags, etc, but 95% are run through the sorting cancel machine.
If any of you want any of my cancels (MPP or Precancel Use Permit) drop me an email via the discussion group email system, and I will get one out to you on the following Saturday. You may luck out without an overancel, or you may not. No postage required, unless this gets out of hand.
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Posted 11/11/2015   4:42 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Hal to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
EXTRACT Domestic Mail Manual

SECTION 604 Postage Payment Methods s/s 3.0 Precanceled Stamps

http://pe.usps.com/widgets/hyperlin...NCEL%20#hit0

3.1.1 Definition
Precanceling is the cancellation of adhesive postage, stamped envelopes, or stamped cards before mailing. Precanceling may be done by the mailer under a postal permit, or mailers may purchase precanceled stamps bearing a price category from the USPS.

3.1.2 Use of Precanceled Stamps
Precanceled postage is an optional postage payment method for mailings at Presorted and automation First-Class Mail prices and at all Standard Mail prices.


3.1.5 Amount of Postage
The value of precanceled stamps affixed to each piece in a mailing must be either the exact amount due or the exact monetary value of the USPS precanceled stamp appropriate to the price category of the mailpiece. Unless permitted by other standards or Business Mailer Support authorization, the same monetary value of stamp(s) must be affixed to every piece in the mailing. Refunds for overpayment must meet the standards in 9.0.

3.1.6 Depositing Precanceled Stamp Mailings
Mail bearing precanceled postage must be presented to the Post Office where the permit is held, at the times and places designated by the postmaster. Mail bearing precanceled postage must not be deposited in street collection boxes.

3.1.7 Combining Precanceled Stamps With Other Postage Payment Methods
Precanceled mail may be combined in a mailing with mail paid with other means only if authorized by the USPS.



3.2
Permit to Use Precanceled Stamps
3.2.1 Authorization to Use Precanceled Stamps
A mailer who wants to use USPS-precanceled stamps and stamped envelopes must complete Form 3615 and file it at the Post Office where mailings are to be deposited. If an applicant has a completed Form 3615 on file for other services, precanceled authorization is annotated on the existing application. There is no fee for this permit.

3.2.2 Revocation of Precanceled Stamp Permit
A permit may be revoked if used in operating any unlawful scheme or enterprise, or for buying or acquiring stamps or mailer's precancel postmarks for other than mailing, or for failing to comply with the format requirement or instructions on Form 3615. The permit holder has 10 days to file a written statement showing why the permit should not be revoked. The manager, customer service support (district), issues the decision on such appeals.

3.3
USPS Precanceled Stamps
USPS precanceled stamps are preprinted with a price category as the precancellation method. The following also applies:

a. Unless used to pay single-piece postage under 3.3d. or to pay postage under 3.5 or 3.6, or permitted by other standards or Business Mailer Support authorization, only one USPS precanceled stamp may be affixed to each piece in a mailing.
b. Mailpieces bearing a USPS precanceled stamp must include the return address.
c. If the return address is not within the delivery area of the Post Office of mailing, the mailer must place a cancellation endorsement on the piece or provide mailing information to the Post Office shown in the return address.
d. USPS precanceled stamps may be used to pay single-piece postage if the piece bearing the stamps has the correct marking (e.g., "First-Class Mail#65533;?) immediately under the postage.
3.4
Precancellation of Stamps by Mailer
3.4.1 Definition of Stamps Precanceled by Mailer
A mailer meeting the standards in 3.4 may precancel adhesive stamps, stamped cards, and stamped envelopes with a mailer's precancel postmark. Mailers authorized under 3.4 may precancel one or more postage stamps provided the total of the postage on the mailpiece equals the exact monetary value of the corresponding USPS precanceled stamp appropriate to the price category of the mailpiece. Stamped cards are precanceled at the time of printing and do not require a mailer's precancel postmark.

3.4.2 Authorization to Precancel Stamps
A mailer must request authorization to preprint price markings on precanceled stamps or to use a precancel postmark on adhesive stamps, stamped cards, and stamped envelopes. The applicant must submit a specimen mailpiece showing the preprinting method or proposed precancel postmark. If more than one preprinted marking is prepared or more than one format is used, a specimen for each must be submitted. Form 3615 must be endorsed "Preprinting of Price Markings,#65533;? or "Mailer's Precancel Postmark,#65533;? or both, as appropriate. The application and format samples must be submitted to the postmaster of the office where the precanceled mailings are to be deposited for approval by the district Business Mail Entry manager. If the application and samples are approved, the applicant receives written notice of approval from the postmaster and a unique permit number assigned by the postmaster.

3.4.6 Design and Content of Mailer's Postmark
The mailer's precancel postmark must contain specific elements:

a. The mailing date (day, month, and year) if used on First-Class Mail; the month and year of mailing may be shown on Standard Mail.
b. The words "Mailer's Postmark#65533;? followed by the permit number and enough lines to deface (cancel) the postage.
c. Either the city, state, and 5-digit ZIP Code of the Post Office where the precancel permit is held and the mailing is to be deposited, or the words "Mailed From ZIP Code#65533;? followed by the 5-digit ZIP Code of the mailing office. (If that Post Office is assigned more than one 5-digit ZIP Code, the precancel postmark must show the 5-digit ZIP Code assigned to the postmaster.)
3.4.7 Price Marking
The precancel postmark may include the words or authorized abbreviations of the price marking required for the price claimed. Alternatively, if authorized under 3.4.2, the mailer may preprint price markings required by other standards on adhesive stamps to be used for mailings at the corresponding prices. Such preprinted markings must be in uppercase letters of at least 6-point type, printed in black indelible ink on the stamp where optimum contrast is possible. A preprinted price marking applied by the mailer, by itself or with a precancel postmark, must not obscure other printing on the stamp that is part of the USPS design (e.g., "USA#65533;?).

3.4.8 Cancellation of Stamps
Black ink must be used for cancellation. It must provide enough indelibility and contrast to prevent reuse of the stamps. The precancel permit number must not be obscured by the cancellation.

3.4.9 Required Format
A mailer must use one of the Format A designs in Exhibit 3.4.9. Format B may be used only by a mailer previously authorized to do so and who has the necessary die. The only permissible alternative or modification to any format is the addition of a price marking permitted by 3.4.7.

Exhibit 3.4.9 Format for Mailer's Precancel Postmarks

By USPS Definition Precancel Stamps & MPP Stamps fall under the same regulation.

Now, I hope you understand.

Hal

P.S. I am a retired Direct Mail Marketer that used precancelled stamps and MMP's to do mailings for over 30 years. You may not want to consider them the same -- BUT the USPS does.
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Edited by Hal - 11/11/2015 5:29 pm
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Posted 11/12/2015   9:04 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add amccleaf1 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Here's one I found on a clipping from one of my sources (OK, my Mom). MPP 66 - unfortunately, I don't know what kind of envelope it was attached to.



-Alan
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Bedrock Of The Community
United States
12128 Posts
Posted 11/12/2015   9:33 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add wt1 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
At least we can ID the ZIP Code (33310) as being from Ft. Lauderdale, FL.
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United States
299 Posts
Posted 11/29/2015   7:41 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add amccleaf1 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Here's another commercial use featuring a MPP. This one is 297, from financial management firm Edward Jones.





Now I've started looking for them.

-Alan
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