Annoying Auction Scenario: Has This Happened To You?

I recently won two lots from an auction house listed on Stamp Auction Network (SAN). When I received my invoice, only one of the lots was included. I sent an email to the auction house asking for an explanation. They replied as follows: "Lot *** was hammered to a book bidder by the auctioneer before your internet bid was received."

I was participating in the auction via the live bidding feed available through SAN. There was interest from other bidders so I had to update my bid a few times for both lots. In each case, I heard the auctioneer award both bids to my paddle number when the bidding was done. Also, after the auction was over, I was listed as the winning bidder for both lots on the SAN website.

I replied to the auction house's email with the above explanation. About 45 minutes later, I received a revised invoice for both lots without any explanation or apology.

Has this scenario happened to anyone on SCF? My initial take was that the auction house was hoping I wouldn't notice the discrepancy in the invoice so that they could offer the item to someone else.

I have no problem revealing the name of the house, but I would like to hear from others here without prejudicing anyone's response.

I seem to recall something similar happening to me. I can't recall the specifics or even the auction firm. I'm always a bit suspicous of some auction firms, especially with book bidders. Items show up as sold and then appear in their next auction. Most likely a clerical error, but you never know ?

By "book bidder" do you mean mail in bidder? If so, I've lost a few to those as well. I wish they would have a cut-off point for mail in bidders to reply and have those bids entered into the system before the end of the auction.

Battle:

I think "book bidder" means those bidders who are not present at the auction or bidding live via the net. That is, all those who mail or fax in bids or post bids on SAN with not to exceed limits.

This house always states "we've cleared the books" when a live bid exceeds any pre-existing bidding level.

I have bid on a myriad of auctions through SAN over the last few years, but have not had that exact scenario occur. In some auctions for which there was not live bidding online, I have had the highest bid showing on certain lots when the bidding deadline has passed, but when the auction results were posted the following day, it turned out that the house had some mail bids that apparently were higher than mine that had not been taken into account prior to cutting off the online bidding. Not sure why the auction house doesn't open all mail bids and enter them prior to cutting off online bidding to allow opportunities to bid higher.

Also in a recent auction, I was announced as the winning bidder of a lot, only to have the auctioneer subsequently announce that another bid had come in through SAN that was higher. I had thought that bids that come through SAN after a lot was hammered down were notified that they were too late, as has happened to me on several occasions. But the auctioneer let this bid in and awarded the lot to that bidder. Although I inquired about what happened, I never received any explanation or even response from the house.

So apparently nothing is safe even after you have been awarded the lot until the material is actually sitting in your hands.

I'd give the auction house the benefit of the doubt and assume it was a clerical error. They should have apologized. The auction houses I purchase from through SAN, have always apologized when they make an error (and it does happen). I've never had your particular situation happen, but I have clerical errors happen when they mis-entered my email bids.

Also, I have had problems with SAN recording my live bid, as sometimes there is a "lag" in the live bidding. This problem has improved over the years, but still occasionally happens. The book bid, as mentioned in a post above, is the high bidder among the mail/email/call-in bids (i.e., not logged in public bidder). Basically, the auction house is acting as an agent and bidding against SAN based on the book bid.

If there are ONLY book bids and you failed to get in your live bid on time, you can ask SAN to re-open an auction lot (even if it has "closed/sold"). When they re-open the lot, you can continue to bid against the book. You can make this request well after the lot has closed, but not after the auction has completely closed.

If there are live bids an you failed to get in your live bid, you can still ask SAN to re-open the lot. But you must do it QUICKLY, and they have to see you were already actively bidding on the lot. It is unethical to deliberately withhold a bid, and try to get them to re-open the lot later when the other live bidder has gone. But if they see you were actively bidding, they will re-open the lot again at their discretion. Again, the request must be submitted in a timely fashion (i.e., within the auction time for the next 2-3 lots).

Therefore, when bidding, you should ALWAYS hang around for at least 10 lots later to make sure the lot you think you won, doesn't get re-opened.

I'm glad you were able to get your situation resolved and hope you enjoy your purchase!

Well I've been to enough live auctions to see that things get messed up more often than you would think and we didnt even have phone and internet bidding in the mix so there is always some risk of not having things go right come the end of the day if you have in hand what you paid for consider yourself lucky.

I would also take a screen shot showing you as the winner with the amount of your bid, if possible.

I paid the invoice. Hopefully, the items will arrive next week.

As I have learned the hard way, sometimes things do get a little disorganized, as has been pointed out, but hopefully the auction houses are sticking to their rules to be fair to both buyers and sellers, occasional mistakes notwithstanding. If a pattern of mysterious behavior emerges over a number of auctions, then one can just avoid that particular house. In the end, there's always another auction coming down the pike which may well have the material that was missed out on in the last auction, so patience and discipline in sticking to one's price objectives will eventually win out.

Agreed, Oracle, but the euphoria of winning a great lot is destroyed when the auction house messes up. As you and others have pointed out above, they will always act in a way that is best for their bottom line.

A long time ago, Jeff Purser gave me one of the best pieces of advice I've ever had on auctions. If it is an item you would like to have, just give the bid to the auction house, but if it is something you absolutely have to have, use an agent. Agents are well worth the small commission they charge and have proven their worth in securing elusive lots for me.

Money, money, money is probably all that the auction house is thinking. Higher selling price means more money.

Yes indeed, Neeskens, I greatly empathize with you in this situation. As I have alluded to, I have also been extremely chagrined on a number of occasions when I thought I had won a great lot only to find out that in fact I had lost out, albeit in slightly different circumstances than yours. I have just had this happen over a long enough period to reluctantly become more resigned to the fact that stuff happens sometimes in auctions and we're all in it (hopefully) for the long haul. Good luck on your next auction and may the odds be ever in your favor to actually eagerly receive the lots that you win.

I had nearly the same thing happen to me. I bid on 3 cover lots in a live SAN auction. I won 2 and lost 1, when I got my Invoice it showed that I won the item SAN showed me losing and losing 1 of the ones SAN showed me winning. The 2 that got mixed up sold at the same price so
I didn't follow up and just took what they sent me. At this point I don't remember which auction house it was.

Another time I bid on a naval cover lot that had been auctioned 6 months prior and not sold at $5000. In the interim I went to the auction house and viewed this and other unsold items. I liked the naval cover lot but not at $5k so I waited. It came up again opening at $2500 and I bid $2600 but the item closed without acknowledging my bid. SAN showed I had lost the item but a couple days later I was happy to get an Invoice for the item. I think the auction house had an owner reserve on the item and after the auction the owner decided to take my bid, but one never knows what goes on behind the scenes.

What I hate is when four or five other bidders start off bidding against my bid after holding up my bid card up until all the other bidders give up ,and the auction caller starts the final call ,then at the last second a bidder throws up his card ,not one of the previous bidders but a new bidder, and they are up for only one bid . This cause me to pay a higher amount just to get rid of this bidder .