Ebay Neg!

Don't understand the ability to leave negative feedback if you don't try to resolve the problem with the seller first thru the message system on ebay . If that fails then turn to ebay for help to resolve the problem. Then and only then you can leave a negative.
Most big sellers have a direct contact at ebay who services their account and will remove any neutral or negative feedback just on a phone call. Smaller sellers have to cry and stand at the Wailing Wall to get action before ebay lifts a finger.

Floortrader,
Part of the problem that this thread reveals is the 'shipping issue'. Typically in most systems missing or damaged shipments ARE a part, or subset, of a sellers performance rating. Capturing shipping performance info is important, the seller generally has control of the shipping provider decisions. If a seller has chronic shipping issues, it is their responsibility to find a better shipping method. This might seem a bit unfair since missing or damaged shipments are often caused by things outside the control of the seller, but is it reasonable to say that a seller has no responsibility if they continue to use a shipping provider when there are known problems? We have also had several threads regarding how some sellers package their shipments. Capturing information on how many shipments/transactions go awry due to bad packaging is also an important metric.

In my opinion, ebay has 'dumbed down' a very complex and challenging metric to the point of being virtually worthless. Their position is not about capturing good data and compiling it into useful metrics, it is strictly about putting things in place to increase buyer confidence. The higher the buyer confidence, the more money they make on commissions. Obviously ebay has tilted the playing field in favor of the buyers at the expense of the sellers because they have profit-related motivations. The rating system reflects this position and is a far cry from a valid metric. There is no simple, easy, or stress free method for capturing and compiling a performance rating. This metric can have a direct impact on the food on someone's table. Treating the data collection like a 12 year olds 'tweet' serves no one any good. Allowing the many work-arounds (like the thriving third party industry of buying and selling ebay accounts and their related ratings) also makes the resulting metrics invalid. ebay's current rating system would never, ever pass muster in a legitimate ISO system.

Collecting valid data is not for untrained people. Folks have to understand the importance of objective data collection and follow certain rules. Instead, ebay has implemented more of a subjective 'suggestion box' than a real performance rating system. In this system ebay dodges the responsibility of collecting the data themselves and thrown it over the fence to buyers to do. ebay doesn't need buyer to report if a shipment wasn't delivered, they could easily determine this themselves for tracked shipments. Untracked shipments shouldn't even be included in a performance metric, untracked shipments are a black hole in which no one can figure out what happened and what improvements may be at hand.

A performance rating is not supposed to be about judgments, they are supposed to be immune from manipulation, they are supposed to capture ALL objective data. Properly implemented, they can be a great tool for improvement. But it is also a natural point of friction so it behooves all parties that the system be fair and rock solid. ebay has an epic fail with their current, inane rating system. (And web sites like Swedish Tiger, which uses the flawed ebay's rating system as a foundation to determine 'good' sellers, only results in things like NYStamp being named 'vender of the year'.)
Don

51 Studebaker said ---"capturing shipping performance info is important" " very complex and challenging metric" "collecting valid data is not for untrained people "---What !! I sold cigar boxes full of stamps between the 1970's for $8.00 each thru the 1990's at $18.00 each and I sold thousands of them with ads in Linn's Stamp News and other journals .
In 25 years this is how it came down -----1 in 8 people ordered more boxes some as many as 10 reorders , one in 25 had some kind of problem with ,this broken down to 1 in 32 bounced a check or wrote a check on a closed account. Then had people claimed they paid for a box ,but they couldn't show me a copy of the canceled check they were 1 of every 50 orders .
My favorite was the people who purchased a lot and then returned it for a refund after they removed the better stamps and most of the complete sets ,really each box had 5 high catalog items and exactly 12 complete sets in glassines ,it was easy to tell what was missing because each box was so standized .
Surpisingly very few boxes where damaged in the mail maybe 1 in 200. So the post office did a excellent job .
This thing with ebay having sellers with ten's of thousands of 100% positive feedbacks is a joke , people are people and the stamp hobby has a smaller percentage of nut jobs and they try everything and anything to get something for free . Metrics and valid data is for some one else . I feel sorry for sellers who don't understand that every store and contractor has bitter customers.
I was in court about three years ago because a homeowner claimed I put black water on his driveway for $200.00 instead of sealcoating it . I handed the Judge 80 invoices that was paid by Shell Oil Co. ,Burger King , KFC , and Taco Bell and about 20 invoices paid by his town folks for sealcoating and asked the Judge what $80,000 in paid invoices over two months tell you about my company . So your always going to have customers issues

The reply from ebay as to why they could not remove the feedback.

ebay's Reply


"We remove feedback in certain situations, such as:

- where the buyer didn't pay

- when you win an ebay Money Back Guarantee case

- if the defect was caused by a wide-scale outage (such as extreme weather)

- by ebay or if ebay takes action on the buyer for violating the Buying Practices policy.


I trust that this information is useful. If you have any further questions please do not hesitate to contact us again.


Thanks for choosing ebay!"

KGV,

While I've sold a fair number of my dupe lots I haven't yet appreciated the ebay scoring system you allude to.




Do I understand your biggest concern to be a huge loss in visibility whenever a seller receives a negative comment?

I certainly understand that many active sellers feel in recent years that ebay has swung too pro-buyer. But if a single negative can cause a seller to receive less visibility, then this is especially harmful to sellers who make every effort to operate fairly and ethically.

Hi dcaraz




Yes that sums it up very well.

There are other reasons why listing visibility can end up in "no persons land".

But I got to say the unfair neg feedback is real downer.Especially when you are trying so hard not to get one.

I do believe there are some changes coming end of Feb next year but I will wait and see.

The problem is that ebay does not reward consistent long term high level performance and their metrics are seriously flawed. The only thing consistent about ebay methodology is intellectual laziness. What company with even grain of intelligence would try to enforce export restrictions by word matching titles. Has ebay never heard of the post office at Cuba, New York? It is not clear that ebay has any enforcement obligation. It would appear that ebay would harass legitimate sellers instead of following the more difficult course of helping sellers to be more effective.

With over 150 million active users and $multi-billion annual revenues, ebay more than likely sees itself as doing no wrong.

Just think if they truly believed in customer service instead of just paying lip service.

Actions speak louder than words. Apparently, ebay regards itself as a monopoly and follows the economic rule saying that marginal cost = marginal revenue. If something costs more than the revenue it will bring in ebay won't do it, even if it is the right thing to do. Unfortunately, ebay does not understand how much of a negative impact on revenue can be attributed to bad sellers. Many buyers bid low for fear that they will receive altered or damaged stamps they don't want and can't return.

For you to cry poor buyer on this thread......





eBays quote.

The buyer rules unjustly by the neg feedback function.

My only feedback less than positive was a year ago, some newbie doofus with a feedback of 7 left me a neutral. He wasn't unhappy in any way. He apparently didn't understand that in ebay, 'neutral' is not desirable. He apparently left neutral for other transactions. After I complained to him he claims he tried to rescind it but couldn't. I blocked him. Maybe that was extreme but I just felt he was going to have a long learning curve and I didn't want to be hurt by his ignorance again.

I ran across this article and it reminded me of this thread, given this poor guys experience you did very well.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...ghtmare.html
Don

floortrader nailed it when he wisely pointed out that any seller, in any commercial setting will have some number of discontented unhappy customers. It's human nature.

Unfortunately, I think the majority of very active ebay stamp sellers feel betrayed by a mammoth market place that cares very little to make things more fair for them. And I assume the key reason why most stamp sellers are being ignored is simply that we don't matter that much. Taken together, what could we total in our generated ebay annual revenue? Not much I would think when compared to sellers of jewelry, electronics, games, clothing, and home goods.