US W427 Wrapper Question.

Oh dear..

Can I make sure what type it is or is that really difficult to determine?

chasa, I thought roughly along those lines and tried to find a record of that die being cracked. I'm not very familiar with wrappers, though. My gut feeling is that there was a crack and some are assuming that every wrinkled can be explained by it.

I believe all the 1 cent wrappers displayed or referenced in this thread are W425's.

The one on ebay has a great many wrinkles. For me, it would be considered a "filler".

The artifact that is being called a "cracked die" is not. The term "die pinch crease" is the term I use to describe them. It is a result of the envelope blank being squeezed inward during the embossing process. They only occur on rotary presses.

If there were such a thing as a cracked die (speaking of U.S. envelopes only here), then they should look the same. But they don't. Also, if you look at the back of the indicium, the pinching effect is much more apparent.

Ok. Hmm. I have checked the possibilities of what type it could be exactly. Think I might better take it of ebay, as I see that the choices are huge. Pure om first glance it looks simulair to the ones offered on ebay already(link). But as long as I do not know what paper and die it is, it seems useless to keep it online.

Design U92, seems to be die 1.

But the paper variations...oeff.

Green on white..i do not think so.
Green on Amber. ?
Green on Oriental buff ?
Green on Blue paper.. I do not think so.
Green on Unglazed Manilla ?
Green on Glazed brown paper ?
Green on Unglazed side of glazed brown paper ?
Green on Unglazed brown wrapper ?

Maybe even missed some.

Now this seems to turn out like a nightmare :).

Remco

@Thomas.

It makes sence indeed. When I look at all the wrappers, the "crack" is not constantly in the same location.

Do you happen to know a way to determine the paper differences for a dummy like me. Or is that a no go?

Remco

"Design U92, seems to be die 1."

Agree.

Paper variations: the catalogs list the following papers for wrappers of this issue:

Manila
Brown, unglazed
Brown, glazed on one side (indicium known on either side)

Though not the 1 cent wrappers, the following gives you an idea of the difference between brown and manila

When I look at the scans you provided now, I would say manilla. But please explain the indicium bit..sorry for the maybe stupid question. :).

Edit: I also posted the picture of the 1 1/2 cent wrapper. When I am correct, this should be scott#w485 and only in manilla paper?

So if the 2 are identical, et voila..

Remco

". . . I would say manilla. . ."

In my opinion, there is no doubt that the scan referenced in the OP is on manila paper.

". . .explain the indicium bit . . ."

The indicium is the embossed stamp. Some envelope collectors prefer that term rather than "stamp".

". . . this should be scott#w485 and only in manilla paper?"

Yes, the 1 1/2 cent circular only comes on manila paper, and its Scott number is W485.

Ok clear.

So the endconclusion.

Scott#W425 with a die pinch crease.

Value next to nothing?

Latest scott value I could find was .50 cents.

And that is without the pinch crease.

Thanks for all your help,reply's and knowledge.

Highly appriciated.
If you do not have one of these gems:), send me your adress and I will send one to you.

Regards

Remco

"Value next to nothing? . . . scott value . . . was .50 cents. And that is without the pinch crease."

Well, not so fast. An EFO collector might be interested in having some of these (die pinch creases) in their collection.

If I saw that group of 4 W425's at a dealer's table at a show being offered a $1 each, I'd walk away with a couple.

Aha. Ok

Well if you want some, you know who to mail now.
Will alter the add. this evening to avoid problems. Bad thing is postage though.

Thanks again! :)

Remco

Another question if I may be so rude.

I was comparing the 1 1/2 c against the 1c wrapper.

Now there is difference in paper. The 1c seems to have some diagonal woven type of structure, while the 1 1/2 is smooth.

It is difficult to see in the pictures though.

The top one on the second picture is the 1c...

I'm not quite sure what the question is.

Both the 1 cent and the 1 1/2 cents circular die wrappers were made from wove paper (as opposed to laid paper). Paper quality varies, even within a given catalog number.

Ok. Just checking. The paperstructure is just alot different from each other. But if that is normal then it is ok. Maybe I was just hoping that the wrappers had a different number after all ;).


Thanks again for your expertise!

Remco

The pinch is a normal artifact of printing and is not an EFO. It is more difficult to find a printing without the pinch on manila wrappers. See my article "Plate Cracks and Other Myth-conceptions about U.S. Postal Stationery" in US Stamp News, whole # 125, NOV 2010 and repeated in the IPDA Newsletter, SEP 2013. "Brown vs Manila: How to Correctly Identify Those Circular Die Papers: appeared in US Stamp News, whole # 110, JUL 2009. The pinch effect is known on most values of the circular dies. Whether this is an EFO or not, Thomas and I have disagreed on for years.

Bill Lehr
author: Collector's Guide to the Circular Dies published by the UPSS
postal stationery examiner for APEX