Expertising Stamps

For those who send stamps to PSE or one of the expertising firms; I have a few questions.

What criteria do you use to choose which stamps to submit?
Do you ever buy a stamp with the intent to send it in for examination? In other words, do you buy a stamp expecting it to grade high enough to make some money on it?
Does the fact that a stamp has a certification make you more likely to purchase it?

I'm not terribly interesting in doing this, but I am curious about the opinions and practices of the forum members.

thanks
wp62

WARRIOR-----Your talking about two separate things ,the first is getting a certificate and the other is grading .

LOL...forgive my ignorance, I am very much still in my learning stage. Perhaps someone could explain the process to a well meaning but misguided newbie.

I actually thought that firms like PSE issued certificates verifying the grades they issue.

again sorry..

wp62

warriorpoet62, you are NOT incorrect about PSE services - they DO certify stamp authenticity, condition and if requested, grade. Of course, some stamps are ungradeable if they have been altered.

You can get a certificate without grading or with grading, if applicable.

Welcome to the Forum !

This has been discussed many times in the forum, with wildly varying opinions. The search function would be a good place to start to get some info.

WP62 - I welcome ongoing discussion of expertizing here on the forum, because the topic remains dynamic. For new and returning collectors, it also can be a confusing or even intimidating part of the hobby.



"Intent" is a BIG word in your question. I have bought a few stamps on ebay knowing that I would send them in for a cert, but not in order to re-sell them. I did so in order to verify that what I saw in the stamp was indeed accurate. Yes, their value did increase with a valid cert in-hand but my intent was to prove what I was adding to a potential exhibit was legitimate.


Well, yes and no. There are stamps out there which one should not buy without a cert because they are easily faked from inexpensive stamps. I do look at a cert as an integral part of my decision-making though; given comparable quality stamps, similarly priced, I do prefer having the cert over not.

THE WORLD OF EXPERTIZING STAMPS -----Has changed in the last 15 years . 90% of all the fakes that are out there can be identified by me or someone on this chat board. That has taken away a lot of the easy business from the expert committees .
The other 8% is repeat business for the expert committees ,that is where someone throws away a negative certificate and then sells the stamp to a new buyer , who in turn resubmits the stamp to be expertized ,but they already have a photo on file of the exact same stamp. This is a easy turn around for the service and profitable end of the business .
The small amount of around 2% are things the committee never had in front of them and needs a expert to review it and that is were the cost and time is needed .

There are several factors but basically the certification criteria for me boils down to how likely an item is to be faked/forged/altered vs its purchase price. I collect the German area, which has untold countless numbers of stamps that are valuable only because of an overprint/surcharge, which is of course much easier to forge than an entire stamp. In many of those cases, such as early Berlin overprints, I wouldn't buy them at all without being expertized as forgeries are just too common. As an aside, for Germany one needs to use the "Bundesprufers" (BPP) as PSE/PF/APS aren't generally accepted expert services for the German area, at least in Germany itself.

However, price alone isn't the only factor for me. Buying a mint hinged copy of an expensive (by my standards) stamp with no known forgeries isn't too risky, assuming there aren't hidden repairs, etc. If I collected expensive classic stamps in never hinged condition, I'd probably want certs since many times in those cases the most valuable part of the stamp (particularly in the German area) is the pristine, NH gum. I'd want to make sure the stamp hasn't been regummed to make it appear NH. Germany also has at least hundreds, if not thousands, of stamps that are more valuable in used condition than mint. In cases where the spread is large, I'd want the postmark/cancellation to be expertized as well. Again, it all boils down to whether there's a possibility that something has been forged/faked/altered to make it appear more valuable.

I agree with the Artful Hinger and KollectorKurt. Having a recognized expert, or experts, review questionable stamps is key to having a good collection, depending on what one collects. My main collecting interest has been Portuguese colonies. I have obtained certs on about 110 or 115 different stamps. As an example, some of the early "Native" issues of Portuguese India; and subsequent surcharged "Natives;" were heavily forged, including some cancels. I have references in that, like floortrader said, I can determine if I have a genuine stamp or not, in many cases. But better to have someone from the ISPP (international Society for Portuguese Philately) or APS take a look.

Other examples would be the early Portugal stamps overprinted for Azores and Madeira; also Scott #s 1-7 for Portuguese Guinea. The Scott catalog suggests that the more valuable Madeira overprints not be purchased without certs for authenticity. A couple of my colonial submissions did turn out to be forged, including a Madeira, and another Madeira was a Madeira overprint on a reprint stamp, not an original. See the Scott catalog for references to reprints of early Portuguese stamps.

(I'll add an aside that the Portuguese area is a much smaller, and less popular, collecting area than the German area. Competent expertisers are available in Portugal, but thus far, I've used only ISPP and APS (probably the same gentleman for both))

I also collect classic Mexico as well as Poland, Russia, and British North America. I have one Mexico stamp with a cert from MEPSI, and may send a few others to MEPSI as I get more into organizing the Mexico collection. Again, I'll follow the same directive to myself, as Artful Hinger and Kurt do, to get certs on potentially questionable items.

Hope this helps. Steve

(NOTE: MEPSI = Mexico Elmhurst Philatelic Society International)

As floortader say, and especially in in 2016 they are very few rare cases you need to pay for a certificate.

Sometimes it is as easy as knowing what the fakes look like and whats wrong with them .

Also knowing what a real stamp should look like .

I disagree. It all depends on the area in question. For certain stamps, it's not just whether the stamp itself is genuine, but whether the postmark is genuine, which can be MUCH more difficult to determine.

In some areas, differences between varieties spanning thousands (or tens of thousands) of dollars may be miniscule.

For certain stamps, even if you know in your heart it is genuine, if and when you decide to the sell the stamp, you simply HAVE to get a cert, or otherwise the stamp will only bring a fraction of its actual value.

For other stamps, you would be foolish to purchase them WITHOUT certs.

Also, images on a message board will only get you so far. In-hand examination is essential for many (if not most) questionable items.

rev.,

I'm with you, that would have to be almost the most irresponsible suggestions that have ever been made on this forum and should be ignored.

Pagoda

added,

re.

For certain stamps, it's not just whether the stamp itself is genuine, but whether the postmark is genuine, which can be MUCH more difficult to determine.

Take for example the extremely rare inflation overprints of Germany which are almost impossible to get genuinely used whilst mint sheets are still available and there are plenty of fake cancels which used the genuine implement backdated. Only those expertisers with reference works of which cancels were used and on what days and a careful study of the ink used are accepted as genuine, 99.9999% are not. There is no way that showing a scan would help determine whether or not the item is genuine. Without the certificate of the recognised expertiser the item is considered a forgery and of no value.

It reminds of people that are ill using Google to check their symptoms instead of seeing a professional,

Pagoda

Also German states, Italian states, and early Italy are problem areas where used can be worth much more than mint, and differentiating genuine postal cancels from fake is NOT easy.