Switserland Helvetia 1891-1907 Identify

I'm using Scott and it doesn't give an answer on exactly which type of these 2 Helvetia stamps I have. It doesn't list type 20 with small numerals in these values.

I'd like to know their catalog value.

What I can tell about them:

30c:
vertical perf 11
wmk 182 (pressed into paper can't be mistaken)
Small numerals in bottom
White paper

3Fr:
vertical perf 11
wmk can't be seen so might be 183
Small numerals in bottom
White paper

I'm personally thinking that 30c and 3Fr simply don't exist in larger numerals colored brown and so Scott is mistaken calling them A20 instead of A21 and thus these are Scott #95 and #111.

This suspicion is based upon the series listed in stampworld displaying 30c brown with small numerals in between the big numeral series:





Any better solutions?

The 3 FR would be Scott 111 at $110.00 ,the second one is 95 at $2.75 ,I would have to check my collection but it doesn't look like small numbers .

The only redesign prior to 1906 was the 40c in small numerals in 1904. This is the only numeral distinction I know of.

[Edit: but there are lots of varieties when you consider perforation, paper, watermark and color changes.]

WOW ---never seen that on the chat board .....answer some ones question with a answer . Then they edit a previous posting to reflect your answer ? That's a new one on me .

Let's analyse stamp by stamp:
The 30c
You say :
- White paper
- Watermark 182
What we can see: perforations: 13 teeth vertically
It can ONLY be a Zumstein Nr 68C or 68D (Michel 60XC or 60YC)
The watermark 182 is existing in 2 types : Wmk 1 & Wmk 2
The Wmk 1 has a cross with large wings / the Wmk 2 thin ones
Catalogue value : with Wmk 1: 60 EUR/ with Wmk 2: from 2 to 7 EUR



The 3Fr
You say :
- White paper
- Maybe Watermark 183 ( a lot of time, Wmk 182 is not directly visible on the stamp, even if it is a pressed mark)
What we can see: perforations: 13 teeth vertically
If you cannot determinate the Wmk type ( with lighter gas), it can ONLY be
- either Zumstein 92A (Wmk 183) CV: Michel #80C = 150 EUR
- or Zumstein 72D (Wmk 182-type2- thin wings) CV: Michel #64YC = 30 EUR
- or Zumstein 72C (Wmk 182-type1- large wings) CV: Michel #64XC = 16000 EUR
So, you can see, for finding the catalogue value, how important is the determination of the type of Wmk.