Sieger Experts In The House?

To compare apples to apples... here the only other 1st NAF cover to Canada I've seen, and its not in good condition ... $16.50 US. So based on that I'm guessing $20-25 isn't crazy for a nicer example.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/p84-Germany-...AOSw5dNWjYkS

This 1st NAF is kind of neat. I like the black ink cachet and the fact it's an onboard cancel for the return trip. For me, I guess I gravitate toward the more visually interesting pieces, or just something different than the average. It may not be anything special, but I really like it.

Btw, Kimo. I noticed that the source of some of your info was the airships.net website. Do you happen to know if that site is still being actively managed? It's such a great web resource, but it seems like it hasn't really been active for awhile. So much good reading there, even from the comments sections. Someone clearly put their heart into that website. Maybe a team of someones. I sent a message but never heard any response.

The price on the Canadian acceptance cover seems a bit full but not outrageous. Most acceptance covers get full prices, especially from countries that are British Commonwealth and that have strong collector bases.

The Sieger cover is a real puzzlement. Yes, the Zeppelin photo postcard, the On Board cancels, and the fact it is from Sieger's collection are all pluses, but not that much. I would have seen this as a $25 card at most given the lack of Zeppelin stamps and that it is one of the most common of all Zeppelin covers. In my opinion either there were a couple of uninformed collectors bidding on it or there was some funny business in the form of schill bidding going on by the seller.

Cool, I found a Julius Bock forgery on ebay. Contacted the seller to let them know.

It's got a 407B Sieger # written on it in pencil, so someone was fooled at some point.

Yes, I believe that airships.net is still being actively managed. I just took a quick look and saw a posting from last month. I agree that this is a useful website, but it is not my only source of information. I use a number of reference books, I am a member of the American Air Mail Society and read the Journal and sometimes write articles for it, I watch ebay results, I get mail auction catalogs from a number of the major dealers around the world, and I have three decades of collecting experience during which I have learned quite a bit. One cannot rely on just one source and one must undertake a fair amount of reading and study to avoid getting taken by being too eager to buy at first sight and to collect first flight covers that are the best examples and will maintain their value over time.

Thanks Kimo. I didn't mean to imply it was your only source of info. But I recognized the Julius Bock info and images that are also posted on the airships.net site, thus my reason for asking you about the site. For all I knew you could have written the material for the site even, so I wouldn't make any assumptions that way.

For myself, I'm relatively new to covers, though I do have some stamp collecting experience from way back. But I've also got an insatiable appetite for knowledge & understanding. I specialize in analysis & design in the IT field, and those skills are highly transferable to pretty much anything that requires absorbing knowledge and processing observations. As a result I tend to be hyper-inquisitive and a bit obsessive, I confess. So don't take any of my comments personally. I question/challenge everything, at least internally; sometimes that might come across in comments.

Another really interesting aspect of zeppelins and zep mail is the fascination people had for them at the time, and the huge expense people were willing to pay for a souvenir. Here's an interesting paragraph from an online article on Brazilian postal rates.

"Yet even the better-off people sent covers on the cheapest routes. In any case, remember that these three denominations corresponde to the 60 cents, $1.20 and $2.40 US (the official US rates). That was a heck of a lot of money in 1930. As an example one need only cite the famous philatelist Herman Herst Jr. /4/ In 1932 he had two different jobs, one paid $15/week for a 60 hour week. Later he received $12 for less hours but that was eventually increased to $15. By 1936 he had reached a whole $28 a week. Fact, someone like Herst, in 1930, would have had to burn almost a week's salary to buy 3 sets of Zeppelins. The situation in Brasil was even worse, even among the middle class. My father-in-law used to go the cinema as a young adult, for a few 100s of Reis, bus fare and refreshments included. Image what value 5$000 Reis then represented. A daily newspaper, national edition, was 0$100 Rs. A simple postcard sent on this flight was thus the equivalent of 50 newspapers."

Very cool... 'Airlander 10'. A new kind of airship.

http://www.hybridairvehicles.com/ai...airlander-10

First flight out of Lakehurst NJ back in 2012.

Hey, itviking, As you well know, ebay listings are all over the place. Don't go by them. The only thing you can count on is that there are bidders on the item. I don't rely on them to establish the value of my item. Good luck! Wolf-==-

There is an interesting short article in the April 2016 "Airpost Journal" that illustrates an d discusses a fake Zeppelin cover that was being auctioned in a well known international auction. It is a Brazilian dispatch on Condor stationery.

Finally found a 1st NAF zeppelin postcard of the Hindenburg, with one of the Hindenburg stamps, for a half decent price. It doesn't have on board cancels, but on the other hand, its not a purely a philatelic creation either. Interestingly, the hand written message on the post card is in English, and based on the message, I would say that the sender was from New York, but on an extended stay in Germany.

It's difficult to make out where the sender was staying, but I think it reads 'Berlin'. Can anyone make out the part where it says "Regards to you all and yours, from..."? Is it Berlin?

This is one of those cases I was referring to earlier. If it was a purely philatelic creation by a cover dealer, it very likely would have been sent on the Hindenburg for posting on board, and the only message (if any) would have read "after x days return to <sender>", since they counted on that to receive the cancelled covers back. But the fact that it was mailed by someone with a message to someone else in New York, and was never expected to make the return trip to Germany, should theoretically add value in terms of its being less 'contrived'. Yet for zeppelin mail, that doesn't seem to be the case necessarily. People seem to like their zeppelin mail clean and neat, with lots of colorful stamps and purely philatelic. Most of the zeppelin mail I've seen is just that... purely philatelic. As one article I read stated... "gloriously philatelic". But personally, I like that someone sent this post card of the Hindenburg as a souvenir to friends back in New York, while at the same time including a personal message. I haven't seen many like this at all. I like it.

Interestingly, the seller had this one priced way below other 1st NAF cover/cards they were selling. I think probably because of it being less contrived - that is, being written on, and not having been posted on board. Or at least in recognition of the fact that people seem to pay more for more contrivance (on board cancels & no personal messages, sent to be returned to sender, etc). That's okay, I'll gladly give it an place of honor in my collection.

Hi itviking. That is a nice postcard with the photo of the Hindenburg. I think you are correct in reading the message as being from someone who was staying in Berlin. I would classify this as a combination philatelic and commercial use with some aspects of both. The reasons I put in the philatelic aspects are two: the person went to the trouble of buying and using a photo postcard of the Zeppelin on which he was having it carried; and, the sender specifically included routing instructions for it to go on the Hindenberg which may or may not have been the fastest way for it to go to New York that month. On the commercial side I am with you in that it does not have an On Board cancellation and it is a bit sloppy overall, not only with the oversized handwritten message and the messy corrected routing instruction the and does not have the attractiveness that most Zeppelin collectors seek.

Since you are going for items that are more at the commercial end of the spectrum it is perfect for a collector with your focus. It costing less than typical "prettier" ones from this flight reflects the overall focus of the majority of Zeppelin collectors but that is very much to your advantage. Nice catch on this!

Thanks Kimo! I appreciate your input on this piece. I'm learning a lot from your observations.

For my collection, I'd actually like to have good examples of both purely philatelic examples, and commercial examples. Though it seems that nearly all LZ129 mail has more philatelic aspects, and hardly any of it exhibits commercial aspects.

The way I am presenting my collection, I am currently using Lighthouse cover albums, with two cover windows per page. Instead of putting two covers on each page, I'm including one cover and then I'm making up a card to explain the nature of the cover and pointing out interesting details. That way someone who is unfamiliar with collecting covers can learn about the hobby and the intricacies of collecting, as they also learn about the cover itself. So as part of that, I plan to highlight the philatelic vs commercial aspects as well.

I really enjoy the curation and learning aspect of collecting, and not just the 'finding' and 'having'.

That's a nice Frankfurt am Main Bahnpostamt 19 cancel as well.