An Example Of Why We Need The Blocked Bidder List

This morning I posted a response in which I said sellers need the Blocked Bidder function. Below is an example of why we need it.

On September 22 I sold this item;



http://www.ebay.com/itm/Persia-BoB-...1551888?rd=1


Apparently 2 of my regular customers got into a bit of a bidding war but I didn't know this until I got the followng message from the winner;

Bidder; I bid this to make sure I get it so I can report your item to ebay. I will ask ebay to conduct their investigation on you. Call me at 818-xxx-xxxx Gary

I looked into the bidding on item and saw that my regulars had placed a lot of bids but so what? Between them they bought 9 items that week and were entitled to enthusiastic bidding if that's what they wanted to do, I certainly didn't like being accused of shill bidding and I could have called ebay and tried to have this winning bid canceled for "Malicious Bidding" but that's a hassle and I decided to see what else I could get this guy to say. After Blocking him I answered.

My Response; What do you want?

Bidder; If you want me to pay for this specific item you should adjust to the real price immediately. It is very clear and Obvious that you have bid so many times with two other numbers in order to increase the price. Any interested bidder, bids only one time and wait to the end of the auction. I want you to understand we buyers are not stupid. Sir I am a collector and I don't play games. If you want to resolve this issue with me then do it accordingly.


I let him stew for a while and then responded.

My response: What do you think is fair?

Bidder; This item Max $12 and that is very good and fair price between you and me to resolve this matter. FYI, No one will pay more than $7. As you may see your bidding history.

At this point I'd had enough and sent him an Invoice for the winning bid and he responded.


Bidder; Ok so be it. I tried to resolve this matter but I guess you need to learn your lessen.

I opened an Unpaid Item claim and he responded;


Bidder; ebay will contact you regarding this specific item so for you to understand not to play game anymore with valuable buyers like me. Yes I sell items in ebay but not $1 or $2 like your items, my items wort BMWZ8 $100K or Porsche C2S $100K or 280SLMB 85K. So please do not worry about my account. Your 50 some dollar I will pay but I will you very bad report on your ebay after ebay do their investigation on your account. This 5o some dollar is nothing but you need to understand it is not correct what you do.

That was the end of it, I reported him for Malicious Buying and Demanding a price different than the auction result. He never paid and I closed the case recouped my fees and gave him an Unpaid Item strike. Frankly I think this guy should be kicked off ebay but I did all I could. I should note this guy had 120 Feedback and 80 came from selling 99c stamps all to the same guy but there were no BMWs or anything else over $20.

These situations don't happen all the time but I've had 3 really bad buyers in the last year and without the Blocked Bidder list I could be subjected to more nonsense from this guy.

WOW

Thank heavens for the Blocked Bidder list, what country was this bidder in? I don't want to deal with this bidder can you email so I can block him to. Thanks

It can work the other way, too. I was recently blocked from bidding by a seller with whom I had dealt with several times before without issue. I have never been blocked by anybody ever before. I've always been a timely payer and shipper. So I contacted him to ask way. He never responded. I guess I'll never know why.

Jack Kelley

For the benefit of all here, please post the buyer's ebay userID. Thanks.

Although I have not seen any cases for online stores (perhaps our resident attorney CJ can weigh in here) it is against the law in US for a business to randomly refuse to serve someone. This is due to the Federal Civil Rights Act of 1964 which makes it against the law for privately owned places to discriminate on the basis of race, color, religion or national origin. And as we have seen recently some states have expanded this to include sexual orientation.

To deny service to someone in a retail store your policy has to be consistently applied; not arbitrary. So for example, a store policy should not be 'we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone' since this could be applied arbitrarily. I also think that a policy of 'we don't serve jerks' would also be considered arbitrary.

So there has to be a legitimate reason for refusing service and you have to be consistent. So a policy such as 'no shoes, no shirt, no service' is legitimate since it can be applied across the board and can be justified by health and safety issues.

I would like to hear from CJ or another lawyer who could answer the following questions…
1. Are online stores considered the same as brick and mortar stores in this regard?
2.Is there a need for sellers to have a published, written policy?
3.Could a policy of 'if a person leaves me a negative feedback I will no longer sell to you' be acceptable?
4. If none of these things are in place what would stop a buyer from suing a seller by saying that they are blocked due to race, color, religion or national origin?
5. Does ebay have legal exposure by allowing sellers to arbitrarily block buyers?

Note I am not implying that Ken has done anything bad or illegal. The thread just got thinking about this issue.
Don

Don,

While it is against the law for a retail business to refuse to serve a customer ON THE BASIS OF PROTECTED STATUS, it is not against the law to refuse to serve a customer on the basis of criteria that are NOT protected by law. In other words, if a customer always calls you a $@#%& and shouts at you every time they come into the store, you have EVERY right to not serve them, as you are not making that decision based upon protected status.

Business owners have banned customers for being PITA since time began. As long as you're not doing so on the basis of race, gender, color, religion, sexual orientation, etc., you are fine (lay interpretation mine).

It's not a blanket restriction for ALL reasons.

Additionally, I would argue that because ebay sets the rules of the venue and transactions on it, and allows sellers to block buyers, that if anyone has standing to sue, it would be against ebay, not the seller. Re: #3, ebay sets the policies, not individual sellers, or at the very least sets limits within which a seller can flexibly operate (return period, stocking fee, refunds, etc.)

The blocked buyer list is the only remaining protection for ebay sellers against the harassment, stalking, scamming, and vindictive purchases on the part of malicious buyers.

ebay allows people to have multiple accounts. So one can simply open another account and bid on auctions where they are blocked, or ask a friend to do so. So this "protection" is easily circumvented.

One thing ebay could do is if a buyer is blocked from bidding, they are blocked from looking too.

But ebay is all about selling as much as they can, and very little about customer service.

Don,

I'm a lawyer. AFAIK, revenuecollecor's right on this one. In the U.S., a business can refuse service for pretty much any reason other than membership in a protected class (race, gender, etc.).

1. Are online stores considered the same as brick and mortar stores in this regard? -- Probably yes. Local laws in the buyer's location probably would govern the outcome.

2.Is there a need for sellers to have a published, written policy? -- No.

3.Could a policy of 'if a person leaves me a negative feedback I will no longer sell to you' be acceptable? -- Yes, because that policy is not based on refusing service because the buyer is in a "protected class," as the others noted.

4. If none of these things are in place what would stop a buyer from suing a seller by saying that they are blocked due to race, color, religion or national origin? -- There is nothing to stop such a suit, but the buyer likely would have difficulty proving that they were blocked or refused because they were in a "protected class". The seller normally receives no facts on which a discriminatory refusal could be based. For example, a buyer's user ID alone normally communicates nothing about membership in a protected class.

5. Does ebay have legal exposure by allowing sellers to arbitrarily block buyers? -- Probably no, unless ebay acquires knowledge that a seller is refusing buyers solely on the basis of their membership in a "protected class," or that the seller is engaged in illegal activity. All kinds of hypotheticals are possible, but it would require something like this: The seller's ebay storefront graphic banner says "We do not sell to %Green%s - If you are %Green% you will be blocked", plus there is evidence that the buyer told the seller that the buyer was %Green% and the seller then blocked. (For %Green%, insert the racial indicator of your choice.) I would analogize ebay to a landlord that normally is not responsible for the discriminatory practices of its tenant merchant unless the landlord knows of the discriminatory practices and does so little that it effectively becomes a participant in the discrimination. Reported cases usually occur in the context of non-discriminatory illegal activity, e.g., the landlord knows its tenant is running a crack house and does nothing.

Chris

I don't want people to think I'm a Block Bidder nut I just counted and I have blocked 45 people in 17 years of selling and the vast majority were for non-payment. My bidders id in this example is;

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISA...hInterval=30

Note all the sales of 99c stamps to the same bidder, building Feedback?

Don I'm just trying to help people "Sellsmarter"

Ken,

Thanks for that. General tip for everyone: the feedback received as a buyer isn't important (since it can only be 100% positive and is usually auto-generated), but feedback as a seller, and MOST importantly, feedback left for others, is a good thing to check when considering best offers. I always do.

In this case, the party has left a fair number of neutral and negative feedbacks for people, especially recently. If I received a best offer from a person with a profile like this, not only would I decline, but I would block as well. Not worth the potential headaches down the road.

ebay sellers live in a magical world where no lost or bad customers exists.

Here what to do, you cancel the sale, ban him if you like and move on to serve good customers. What is the purpose to lost so much energy.

No shoes, no shirt, no service

area66; I wish I could have canceled the sale and moved on but I couldn't. If I cancel a sale ebay counts it as a defect and there is a very low threshold of .5% on defects. I could cancel the transaction and say it was at buyers request but the buyer has to agree and clearly that wasn't this guys agenda.

My actions with ebay took very little time and in fact I spent much more time writing my post than I did dealing with this guy.

I've been a seller since 2001 and have about a dozen IDs on my blocked list. It's simple really. The minute you get that 'uh huh' feeling about where your interaction is going, block them. Three on my list are buyers who won an item they had issues with and instead of contacting me so I could adjust matters they either left negative/neutral feedback, or sent me a threat by messaging. Who needs that? In all three cases, I just sent them a full refund, told them to enjoy their free stuff and that they wouldn't be able to bid on my stuff any longer. All three were for items under $10.