1c 1851 Plate 3 Stamps

widglo - nice going. The updated info on 19L3 is appreciated. I know that there are a lot of corrections in the right-half of the left pane that have been made but not documented. I don't know what they are other than the few I've posted.

Your 19L3 does have a plate 3 "look" to it. It is similar in appearance to the vertical strip I posted above on the same page - 74-84-94R3.

rlsny - your B relief could be either plate 2 or 3. I see nothing immediately that tilts it in either direction. There are many more generic-looking plate 3 stamps than people probably realize. With a June postmark, and that appearance, that mostly eliminates 1856 as a plate 3 usage, based upon appearance ... I strongly suspect 1857 usage, either plate 2 or 3.

This is 68R3, one of the larger double transfers on the plate.
Another example was posted somewhat earlier in this thread.

This is position 51L3, showing the imprint.

This is one of two known plate 3 imprints on cover.

Very few plate 3 imprint items are known at all.

Ty II #7 Pos 43-44R3 used with 3c Ty I (11) to Italy.

43R shows the curl over C in CENTs - although it may be hard to see in the scan.

This is a 3 months rate cover to Italy, from New Orleans.

edit: The 1c stamps are in the dark Prussian Blue shade, which mostly shows up in Nov-Dec of 1856. This was mailed on Dec 31st (or 30th) from New Orleans.

100R3, showing strong double transfer in the top label and right side oval.

Dark plate 3 prussian blue shade.

The 10R column was clearly the first column entered on Plate 3, and it exhibits no less than 5 double transfers - 10/20/30/90/100R.

Ex Boyd

Here is one I just ran across. Siegel 1347 lot 4128. It is a strip of 3 with margin at right. Siegel stated it was plate 2 with a pre-printing paper fold. It is a relief B. There is a guide dot on the middle stamp that does not match any relief B stamp in column 9 of plate 2. I did find a matching guide dot on position 49L3. This must be positions 48-50L3. I wish position 48L3 showed a guide dot as well. Is this plate position correct? Check out the guide dot on middle stamp.

I believe this will be a plate one-early strip from the 8-9-10R column of 1E. It's definitely not 68-70R but the other 3 spots are in play. 28-30, 48-50, 88-90.

Spacing+alignment does not work for plate 3.
Its not plate 2.

It looks like it is 28-30R1E. I should have checked that plate before I went to plate 3,

That's a really nice strip, jaxom. Even with the fold, the 10R1E is a prized #7 with the most complete "T" Relief at the top. To quote David Zlowe, "The 10R1E position is an exemplar of the complete design at top – no other Type II matches it on the three-relief-roll plates (Plates 1, 2 and 3)."

jaxom - Of course you are right – it's 28-30R1E. I misinterpreted txstamp post when he referred to it as "8-9-10R column". I saw 8-9-10 and didn't register "column", so didn't even look much further because I was so excited to think it was a top row.

I guess that's what forums are for – to reveal quickly who the real experts are.

Some updates to Plate 3 - corrections to the Neinken book.

29L3 in the Neinken book is actually 63R3.
47-48-49L3 in Neinken is really 27-28-29L3.
26-27-28L3 in Neinken are really 65-66-67R3.
30L3 in Neinken is really 50L3.
36-37-38L3 in Neinken are really 34-35-36R3.
44L3 in Neinken is really 95R3.
67R3 from Chronicle 110 is really 44L3.

@txstamp - I have a question on making these changes on the plate 3 Neinken drawings.
Your list is important and needs fixed on Stamp Smarter.


What do I do with the position that get displaced?
Such as positions, 63R, 29L, 65R, 66R, etc.
And that will leave empty holes, 47-49L, 26L, 30L, etc.


I went back through the Vogel sale. I remade all the images for plate 2, 3 and 4. I fixed the changes that were made in the list. I added 2 more plate 2 that were on cover that I changed or plated, lots 382 and 383.

Vogel lot 382 - I bought and have that cover. I discovered it was wrong when I got it, and I plated it as you have - 68-70R2 is correct. Sorry I didn't add that to Dick's list but you are right to do so.

With regard to what to do with unknown plate positions - good question.
IIRC Neinken simply didn't list a position he didn't know.
But the positions he did list - incorrectly - do have plating marks that are worth noting/remembering - as we may be able to re-plate those positions later.

On page 258 in Neinken 1c - you'll see he has a couple plate 3 mats with ?'s. It seems like a separate section is needed for this - stamps that have been seen but not plated. I realize this may not be possible since we can't redo the website.

Obviously you can use a text note to explain that Neinken's plating was wrong for a certain position. Maybe even also a paragraph errata summary up at the top somewhere - basically listing the errata, even including all of the prior articles like chronicle 110. Just list old and new positions in text. At least that way its there, and we can get fancier over time.

I found an unplated strip of 3, Siegel 1037 lot 1405.
After a bit of searching, I found a match at 78-80R3.
Neinken shows no info on position 80R3.
Well, I have a copy now.

Neat. I will have to check over the weekend to see if I have any of those positions to verify.