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Rawdon, Wright, Hatch & Edson Print?? Need Help Identifying This!

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Posted 04/07/2017   8:44 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add Tolch123 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message
After hours and hours of searching, I'm still clueless. I desperately need help identifying what this is! I appreciate ANY input!

Thank you!















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Posted 04/07/2017   9:21 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add littleriverphil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

It looks like a "sampler", various vignettes, borders, backgrounds, effects. Interesting.
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Edited by littleriverphil - 04/07/2017 9:22 pm
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Posted 04/07/2017   10:35 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Tolch123 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I'm helping my grandfather sell it, any idea what it's worth? Thank you for the help!
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United States
2226 Posts
Posted 04/07/2017   11:41 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Classic Coins to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
That's a beautiful item. I have no idea what it's worth, but it is really nice.
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Australia
38679 Posts
Posted 04/08/2017   12:11 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
That's a beautiful item. I have no idea what it's worth, but it is really nice.


I echo that sentiment.
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Posted 04/08/2017   06:57 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add mdroth to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Wow - very cool. Never saw one like it. If it's real, it will be worth something nice. How big is it? What's it made from - what kind of paper? (What does it feel like/look like?) Where did he get it? Where has it been & for how long??

Knowing the answers to these questions can help us understand what it is & therefore potentially its value...

(Is it engraved? Smooth? Run your finger over each picture - does it feel like there are ridges in the printing (engraved) or is it smooth??)
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United States
1189 Posts
Posted 04/08/2017   07:30 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Stampman2002 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
This appears to be a collage of material which had previously been printed by the firm and would likely have been used in a salesman's sample book. These were taken by salesmen to various cities/businesses in an attempt to get the business to use the printing firm's services for their needs. In the mid-1800's, most businesses used engraved letterhead and sometimes envelopes as both a means of promoting their business and a way of making their firms look more substantial and permanent.

If this is not a reprint, the images should be engraved. You should see a slight raised surface when you tilt the page and look at it from the side.

As far as value goes, I would guess that it could go from around $50.00 to $1,000. It is going to depend upon how many people are interested and how it is marketed. As a collector of proofs and essays, this would fit in nicely with my collection, as an example of one of the early stamp printer's work. The firm you mention, Rawdon, Wright, Hatch and Edson, printed our first stamps, Scott 1 and 2.

Something which would help tremendously to increase the price realized would be a detailed explanation of where this came from. Was it sold as part of the Bank Note archive sales? Was this part of a salesman's sample book? When and where was it obtained. It would be worth it to have your grandfather explain as much as possible. Any documentation which came with it would help as well.
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Edited by Stampman2002 - 04/08/2017 07:33 am
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Posted 04/08/2017   07:42 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add 51studebaker to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I vaguely recall seeing something on the US television show 'Pawn Stars' for printed currency. If memory serves (and I admit that I HAVE slept since then) it was a type of printing proof with various bank note design elements orientated 'to fit' just like the one shown by Tolch123 above. You might want to post this same image over in the Coin forum and see if they have any insight.
Don
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Posted 04/08/2017   10:19 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Tolch123 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I'm really grateful for the help! Also, incredibly blown away with how much you folks know!

Details-wise, my grandfather is kind of losing his marbles a little bit, so the history is tough to speak to. The print is 23.25" x 28", and it does appear to be engraved stamping, based on your descriptions. I have no clue how long he's had it, but most likely a while. I would assume it was either purchased in a shop, or through a business transaction, which was typical of him.

I appreciate insight!
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Posted 04/08/2017   10:38 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add stallzer to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Is there any form of provenance accompanying it? Hatch would be Lorenzo J Hatch who was an engraver with the Bureau of engraving and printing. He left the U.S. along with William Grant for China and designed many of the early Republic of China stamps including the Temple of Heaven and the airmail stamp of the Curtis jenny over the great wall.


https://postalmuseum.si.edu/pacific...ange/p3.html
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Posted 04/08/2017   10:51 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Tolch123 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I didn't realize I didn't include the first part of the handwritten text...

In mirrored (backwards) writing "A.B.N. CO. - MATISA BROCHURE"

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3859 Posts
Posted 04/08/2017   1:24 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add jogil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It was put together by the American Bank Note Company (ABNCo) with engravings printed for paper currency. You should ask the Coin Form http://www.coincommunity.com/forum/
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Edited by jogil - 04/08/2017 1:44 pm
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Posted 04/09/2017   12:59 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add Kimo to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
These are souvenir sample sheets of actual engravings printed by the American Bank Note Company. Here is a link to a recent ebay auction of one that looks similar to yours. The seller set a starting price of $195 but there were no bidders at that price.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMERICAN-BA...047675.l2557
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Edited by Kimo - 04/09/2017 12:59 am
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Posted 04/12/2017   8:00 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add GregAlex to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Yes, this was printed in the 1970s, I believe. It was originally used as a cover of an annual report for American Bank Note, if I'm not mistaken. I can provide more info when I can check my home library.

Edit: This is listed in the numbering catalog of the Souvenir Card Collectors Society as FSO1985A, a semi-official "forerunner" card (even though it was printed on bond paper). It was sold at the 1985 International Paper Money Convention in Cherry Hill, NJ, for $15 per sheet. 975 sheets were donated by the ABNCo to the Society of Paper Money Collectors (SPMC) as a fundraiser. I have one of these rolled up in a tube and every so often I'll pull it out and feast my eyes.

Fyi, souvenir card dealer Ken Barr has these for sale at $70 on his website at www.kenbarr.com/fore.html.
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Edited by GregAlex - 04/13/2017 01:35 am
Bedrock Of The Community
Australia
38679 Posts
Posted 04/13/2017   06:18 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add rod222 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Nicely solved.
Thank you Greg.
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Edited by rod222 - 04/13/2017 06:19 am
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Posted 04/15/2017   12:58 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add GregAlex to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
I thought you might like to see what an actual salesman sample sheet looks like. In 1979, American Bank Note Co. dug deep in their vault and pulled out an incredible printing plate from before the Civil War. It must be massive; the print from it measures 22 x 28 inches. I have a flatbed scanner that will scan up to 11x17 and I still had to stitch together 4 scans. This is the largest engraved item I own.

Rawdon, Wright, Hatch & Edson was the premier banknote house in the 1850s. They were the largest of the seven companies that consolidated to form American Bank Note in 1858. When they opened a branch in New Orleans in the 1840s, they needed a showpiece that spotlighted their engraving capabilities. This piece was very likely framed in a prominent place and used as a sales device when clients wanted to see what might be used on their bank notes or securities.

998 of these reprints were produced in 1979 on card stock. There are vignettes on the sheet that go back to the 1820s and a great many appear on obsolete notes, bank checks, and stock certificates. Among the small portraits, Washington and Franklin were cropped into ovals and used on the first U.S. postage stamps in 1847. You'll even see a U.S. silver dollar and a Spanish milled dollar at the bottom.













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