"Near Very Fine" Wording?

near very fine sounds better than F-VF+

Hardly. As Jim correctly presumes, the intent was humour. It's a pop culture reference. With respect to "hardly anyone know or needs to know", I would respectfully disagree. People who have spent considerable time on the Interwebz would know what it means.

We seem to be running afoul of the same sorts of communication issues that plagued Delphi, where current and/or popular culture references to anything newer than about 30 years ago would perplex the current population of septo- and octogenarians.

In other words, it's newfangled talk that these damned whippersnapper kids engage in... and stay off my lawn!

Dan,

At least we haven't evolved to leet or 1337. Yet!

Hi all

First issue revenues cannot be held to the popular standard of centering. While some auction houses over inflate their descriptions. I've always just ignored any description that any body who sells first issue revenue stamps.

I think, when someone is selling these first issue revenue stamps, just show a good scan or picture, with the Scott number. Let the buyer decide if the stamp in question meets his condition requirement. Of course all faults should be described. A thin is a thin, not described as tiny thin, or very small thin, a thin is a thin.

OK, now is the time to take you shots.

Good luck in future

Stampmaster

Hi Stampmaster,

Ignoring the lot description is fine IF there's a picture for you to look at and judge for yourself.

The advantage of having a description of, say, fine to very fine, tells you right away what the general centering should be. If that is the centering that you're looking for for your collection, you don't have to look at a picture/scan at all.

The problem with THAT though is that some dealer's are not as accurate (or honest) with their assessment as others. For example, a "fine to very fine" stamp described by, say, Eric Jackson means that the stamp is off center a bit in one or two directions, but the design is clear of the perforations. Most collectors would find this centering acceptable. Eric very rarely calls something "superb" or "XF;" when he does though, the stamp is, in fact, truly spectacular.

However, "fine to very fine" as described by, say, the longtime firm that starts with Apfel means that the stamp has one or two nice margins, while the remainder of the stamp is incredibly off center. In other words, they mean, "this part of the stamp is very fine, and this part is (very) not," which is a really weird way of assessing the centering of a stamp. But once you understand their particular terminology (misuse), then you know to only consider "very fine" or better stamps from them.

Sadly, determining which dealer(s) or auction house(s) has/have truly accurate lot descriptions takes a great deal of time to learn, not to mention some relatively expensive lessons that were unfortunately learned the hard way.

Of course, further complicating all of this terminology is that philatelists, in general, are a "different" type of person than the majority of the rest of civilization. For the entirety of everything other than stamps, saying that the movie you just watched or the dinner you just ate was "very good" would make the director or chef quite happy. But saying that a certain stamp was "very good" means that the stamp is so far off center it's almost uncollectible.

Since you're into revenue stamps, here's one of my pet themes. Take a minute and search on Google images for the word "ultramarine," and see if ANY of the colors in the resulting images looks even slightly close to the first issue or private die proprietary ultramarine varieties. "Ultramarine" is a completely different color to stamp collectors than to the rest of society.

Jim

Old David Letterman joke from 15 years ago, when he was referring to the Internet in a conversation:

"Oh, is that thing still around?"

Jim

Jim,

The problem then becomes what is VG, F, VF, XF for that stamp or type... which then starts to require specialized knowledge, which many dealers and collectors do not have. Letter/numeric grades are not universal; standards vary by issue, IMO.

For example, left-to-rght centering on certain part perfs that would be deemed VG on any other type, is actually the norm for the type, and a visually F/VF example would actually be VF/XF (or higher) for that type.

Try finding an R77c-R80c with perfs clear of the framelines on all 4 sides and anything even remotely approaching even spacing, and you have a 1 in a 1000 example.

Personally, I try to refrain from all uses of grade, as it is so subjective and ultimately in the eye of the beholder.

Yeah, that's the sad irony of collecting stamps.

Once you finally have figured out all of this stuff and have the wisdom and hands-on experience to be able to tell which particular stamp is actually very rare because it is centered far better than almost any other similar example, but is off center compared to other stamps... your vision starts to go and ultimately you're six feet under.

Jim

p.s. Sorry, didn't mean for that to escalate so quickly...

You're such a "glass half full" kinda guy...

It would be quite helpful if the Scott Specialized included such centering notes on each classic stamp, regular issues thru the back of the book.
Notes like the following found under the listing of 115, the 6 cent ultramarine;
" No 115 is the most difficult value in this issue to find well centered unused."
Used examples might be even harder to find well centered and in sound condition.

I don't think that Scott would ever rewrite their calalogue to that extent. Sounds more like a series of Philatelic Classis Society articles from each section.