Woohoo! Went 3 For 3 At The Philatelic Foundation!

Hard to believe there are no used examples if it's genuine. It's a popular area that was in Scott back in the 20's and 30's before being removed until they were reinstated sometime around 1980. There have been some serious collectors over the years, at least one of whom posts on this board.

Re: the first two NARCOTIC overprints

They are different. Note how the tops of both "C"s "kick back" on the one called genuine. That would not be caused by a distortion with either a metal or hard rubber stamp, certainly not without distorting much of the rest of the word. It could be chalked up to heavy wear. Ends of the legs of the "N" line up on the one called genuine, not on the other. That's not due to wear. The missing crossbar on the "T" and the breaks in the to of "O' and the last "C" may or not be characteristic of the genuine.

Also IF the ink on the second example fluoresces brightly, then a very modern ink was used for faking.

Thanks, but maybe kinda missing another point, which is that, if one particular overprint is "OK" and another that looks just like it is not, and the only difference between the two is the direction of a serif or the shape of a "C" or something, AND that there are no known used copies to prove genuineness of either one, how can overprint A be "genuine" and overprint B be "counterfeit"?

Also, these rubber stamps were never before needed: they were all made by professional print shops for the local Internal Revenue offices as brand new devices.

In fact, in my opinion, broken or "worn" text is indicative of fraudulent use. This is of course different though than underinked, overinked, or similar issues by the poor sap that had to handstamp thousands of boring documentary stamps in early 1919.

Jim

Those details are key. It indicates a different typeface that may look the same to most but are actually different. The "N" and "C" (additionally flatter at the tops and bottoms than on the stamp judged fake) are major differences. If only one office used this typeface,
the letters could only be a certain way.

revenuecollector: Congratulations on your philatelic finds and they being certified as genuine.

Cancels are a lot harder to fake then it seems. Since narcotic stamps were only used by drug companies, there are a relatively limited number possible and many are from fairly well known companies.

But it can still be done by someone who has access to a photo or scan of a genuine cancel from a dealer site, ebay sale, printed article, etc. Whether the fake is done well enough to fool experts or collectors is another matter.

Apologies to revenuecollector for helping take this celebratory thread on a tangent, but that seems to always happen.

I am of the opinion that none of the three narcotic hand stamps are genuine. Regardless of a positive opinion from the PF so many years ago. In my opinion there are no genuine red hand stamps.

My apology in advance for perpetuating this tangent, but I do question this comment:

"A rubberstamp required special steel type rather than the standard lead alloy. No print shop would carry all styles or sizes, which explains the variety from office to office."

Could I request what the source of this information might be?

Back in the 1980s I worked in a very large printing facility. I operated and repaired Intertype machines and printing presses. I also made hundreds and hundreds of rubber stamps.

In short, the vulcanizer did not get hot enough to melt lead alloy type, but it did heat the Bakelite and rubber sheets quite well.

We never used "special steel type" anywhere in the plant.

Please see below for an overview of the process.

Jim

One more comment:

"Used examples do not automatically proves genuineness or not. Cancels can be faked, too."

I don't disagree with this assessment, however one should consider the amount of time, work, and cost involved in creating a fake used stamp (narcotic or otherwise), versus the potential financial reward when attempting to sell the item (this is assuming that this is the motivation to make a used stamp, unless there are crazy collectors somewhere who just like to own fake used stamps or something).

With the exception of the dollar value narcotic handstamps and a few company-specific overprints/cancels, there doesn't appear to be any used stamp that might look promising to forge.

In fact, with just two exceptions (RJA11 and RJA19), the Scott Specialized value is higher for unused examples over used copies. And the catalog value of these two exceptions is very modest, mint versus used.

Jim

p.s. Here's some other denominations with the same (or similar) overprint.

IMO the Scott catalog is wrong in many cases with regards to provisional narcotic stamp pricing. Especially since they make no distinctions between the various handstamps.

That's something that I plan on correcting.



Jim

I have photocopies of the Tolman collection; had my pick of the Alfano collection; had my pick of another classic collection. That plus fifty years of collecting myself. I exhibited at NY2016. I have made corrections since that show. We are still learning!

We also may have a smoking gun as to the identity of one individual who may have been one of the creators of philatelic fakes in the 1920's. An APS member to boot!

There are also some manuscript provisions that probably will never achieve catalogue status!