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Is This Overprint An Ink Jet Printing..?

 
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Pillar Of The Community

France, Metropolitan
3745 Posts
Posted 07/25/2017   7:03 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this topic Add perf12 to your friends list Get a Link to this Message


This stamp has been on e-bay and the 5 looks like an ink jet effect in it's texture.I am missig this one in my collection so I have doubt's about this one...

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Pillar Of The Community
United States
7239 Posts
Posted 07/25/2017   7:43 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add bookbndrbob to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
Looks like a hand stamp to me.
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Pillar Of The Community
United States
3224 Posts
Posted 07/26/2017   6:27 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hy-brasil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
It's what a handstamp that is not re-inked before striking looks like, or one where the ink mix is weak. The mottling comes from separation of ink coloring matter with its oil base.

The mottling would be more regular if this was an inkjet, I would think. If that overprint is dry-looking and dull (if lightly printed like this), that would obviously be an inkjet fake. We can't necessarily tell that from a scan.

Looks good to me at first glance though my experience is with the reprints. I do not know the exact "look" of the originals. I can see where this one would interest you and why you would be wary. You might ask for a scan of the back. If it shows an impression from the overprint strike (it still may not even if genuine), then it's not an inkjet fake.
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Edited by hy-brasil - 07/26/2017 6:48 pm
Pillar Of The Community
France, Metropolitan
3745 Posts
Posted 07/29/2017   05:05 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add perf12 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
thanks for your replies: also photo of the back...




also the seller has another one with a more convincing strike.
The diagonal lines on left bother me though.




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Edited by perf12 - 07/29/2017 05:12 am
Pillar Of The Community
United States
3224 Posts
Posted 07/29/2017   11:43 pm  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add hy-brasil to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
So, I have put everything I could find together, near to same size for comparison but not perfectly matched:

  • Upper left is from the APS certificate site, a reprint, showing the typical breaks/cuts and heavy inking.
  • Next is your first scan. Immediately, it's too big to be correct. The lighter inking makes clear the space between the lobes at the top of the "5" is too wide. I was wrong about my initial guess.
  • Then comes your second scan, which matches well with the reprint. Don't worry about the bars at bottom left; that's part of a fingerprint. What I don't like is the ink is heavy like the reprint, whereas the catalogs say "grayish black ink". Also the upper right "ball" is rounder than the reprint or genuine, which look more triangular.
  • Bottom scan is from an auction with a 1999 PF cert and the #4/the small piece has a Kneitschl signature. If you look hard (this scan is near maximum size), the fine lines of the "5" are mostly there and very thin. And there's the grayish black ink.

It is a surprise that your scan #2 has no breaks in the fine lines. A wild guess (here we go) is that there was more than one reprinting done, with the breaks perhaps deliberately done to deface the "5". Then a request for more overprints came along and the deface die was used. Again, pure speculation.

So first scan fake; second scan reprint or fake, I'm fairly positive.

Note that #5F does not have the same handstamp. The top lobes are bigger. It's otherwise pretty close to a #4 black overprint. And perhaps the shade of the basic stamp is a clue; both genuine ones look to be in the bright rose shade.
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Edited by hy-brasil - 07/30/2017 12:25 am
Pillar Of The Community
France, Metropolitan
3745 Posts
Posted 07/30/2017   07:50 am  Show Profile Bookmark this reply Add perf12 to your friends list  Get a Link to this Reply
thanks hy-brasil for your analysis.My conclusion is I won't buy the stamps in question.Stamp colour a bit to dark as you mentioned.The 1st forgery,2nd forgery(strange though),3rd (possible reprint;see pic below)
In fact very few things are known about these stamps.4th cancels and overprints ,yet strange the blue and black together,maybe a favor overprint.
http://www.oocities.org/~joehahn/ha...k/part1.html



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